Template talk:Sustainability

WikiProject Environment      (Rated Template-Class)

Environment portal This environment-related template is part of the Environment WikiProject to improve Wikipedia's coverage of the environment. The aim is to write neutral and well-referenced articles on environment-related topics, as well as to ensure that environment articles are properly categorized. See WikiProject Environment and Wikipedia:Contributing FAQ. Template This page is not an article and does not require a rating on the quality scale.

This template was considered for deletion on 2008 October 7. The result of the discussion was keep.

[edit] Large, complex template

This is now a very large and complex template. I would have thought something smaller and more focused would have been better. Johnfos (talk) 08:30, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

• Yes; alternatively, I could try dividing it into sections using {{Navbox with collapsible sections}}, meaning only one section need be visible when you first see the template on a page. Sardanaphalus (talk) 10:50, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

I can understand the desire for compact navigation templates, but speaking for myself only, I don't see a problem with a large template when the underlying subject matter is complex. For comparison, see {{Global warming}} (I also don't like having to click ten times to see the whole template - there should be an "expand all" option). In my opinion, these are complex topics and we shouldn't try to dumb them down. If someone wants to understand a topic as general as "sustainability," they have a lot of reading ahead of them in the disparate fields of economics, politics, ecology, energy, and environmental protection. One way to make smaller templates would be to split off subtopics of sustainability. By analogy, in renewable energy, there are separate templates for each of the technologies, such as {{Wind power}}, {{Solar energy}}, {{Geothermal power}}, etc. There is no one catch-all template for the whole topic of energy, and energy is but one subtopic of sustainability, so it's impressive the {{Sustainability}} template manages to fit on one screen. One way to tighten the template slightly would be to rearrange the groups to reduce the white space. For example, the Technology group has only one entry, which wastes a whole line, and doesn't make much sense given that so many entries in other groups are about technology. Rearranging the entries to get each group to fill its line more efficiently would shrink the height of the box a little (without making the template any simpler). --Teratornis (talk) 05:42, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

• I guess the key distinction is between "dumbing down" (not good) and, for want of a better description, "manageability" (probably good). The template as it currently stands is fine for me too, although I also understand if people think it's "too much all at once". I think I'd keep the Technology group intact as surely there are or will be more entries to add to it..? Thanks for your feedback. Sardanaphalus (talk) 12:43, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

I really dislike this template, and many similar ones proliferating now on Wikipedia. It adds little and clutters up articles. V.B. (talk) 01:51, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

• Whenever you see it, does it always start out collapsed? Sardanaphalus (talk) 03:22, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

It is large, but still seems manageable. Removing some of the duplicate entries and grouping related/like concepts helps some on the complexity. Zodon (talk) 23:07, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

[edit] How to collapse template?

How come this template is collapsed in some articles and uncollapsed in others without any parameter controlling the state of the template? I want to make it collapsed in sustainable food system. --Phenylalanine (talk) 11:43, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

• {{Collapsible option}} indicates why, although tersely (once you know, you know). I've added it and the {{{state}}} parameter to the template here, so {{Sustainability |state=collapsed}} should do the trick for you. Sardanaphalus (talk) 19:32, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
  PS Any thoughts on the thread above?

Thanks a lot! The template looks ok to me. --Phenylalanine (talk) 21:09, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Collapsible groups

I combined several of the like-seeming groups to make collapsible sections for the template.

Bit of rationale/explanation on the groupings

• Subdisciplines, activities & professions, and related disciplines - seem similar (fields of study or professions).
• Resource use - food & water, energy, materials, biodiversity (which is, among other things, a resource - also seems to cover health of whole linked set of resources.)
  • Consumption could also go in this group, but I didn't put it there because of the following
• I PAT - I didn't make a collapsible group for this (seems like should start with something more than a list of groups), but the sections Population, Consumption and Technology would fit reasonably nicely in Erlich et. al's I = Population * Affluence (consumption) * Technology (extraction tech) formula. (The technology section here may not correspond exactly to that model though.)

Perhaps the I PAT group should also be collapsible, if there is a way to specify a default group to start out uncollapsed but let the template user select something else. Then template users could select whatever section is appropriate to have uncollapsed.

There are a few technical problems to be worked out. The spacing didn't come out quite as expected for the section heads for the collapsed sections.

Thought this might help address the issues with the large size of the template. Zodon (talk) 07:15, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

That looks much better! Thank you for the time you have put in... Johnfos (talk) 10:06, 9 October 2008 (UTC)