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[edit] comments

I would say that the article is not neutral and rather inaccurate. The author comments that though it is not recognized, it deserves a separate box. It could have its separate box but the question is to call everything their internationally recognized names. So It is not a republic but a breakaway region and it is ridiculous to put all the state symbols there.

Also a short comment on the history section. Before the Russian anexation of Georgia "South Ossetia" did not simply exist. There were no Ossetian settlements in that region and were artificially created later on.

[edit] Date of indepedence

Did South Ossetia declare independence on November 28, 1991, as the main Wikipedia article on the country claims, or on September 20, 1990, as is frequently cited in scholarly articles and in this Wikipedia article Georgian-Ossetian_conflict#Origins_of_the_Conflict? It is also worth noting that September 20 appears to be the day chosen by the South Ossetian state as its independence day.

[edit] Old citation needed tags

Should that Roki tunnel one at the end that says that South Ossetia gets a third of it's income from the Roki tunnel also come off?

[edit] Interview with Mikhail Gorbachev and interview of South Ossetian US citizen on FOX news

In an interview with CNN's Larry King, the former soviet president Michail Gorbachev stated that he believed Georgians initiated the hostilities with overwhelming force, although he did not cite any refrences but given his credit it is not immidiately clear why he should not tell what he thinks is true. Also in an interview with FOX news channel, 12 Year Old Girl Tells the Truth about Georgia a South Ocetian US citizen who was there when hostilities broke claims being bombed by Georgians and thanks Russians for saving them.

[edit] TimeLine

1237-40 - Mongols invade Russia, forcing Ossetians to migrate out of their medieval homeland south of the Don River in present-day Russia. Digor in the west came under the influence of the neighbouring Kabard people, who introduced Islam. Iron in the north became what is now North Ossetia. Tualläg in the south became what is now South Ossetia, part of the historical Georgian principality of Samachablo.

1774 - For negotiations about joining of Ossetia (today's North Ossetia) to Russia, in Mozdok there has arrived special Osset delegation and has met there the plenipotentiary of Russian government — the Astrakhan governor Krechetnikovym. In Mozdoke the question on definitive joining of Ossetia (today's North Ossetia) to the Russian empire has been dealt with [1].

1782 - Tsar of Kakheti (state of Georgia) Irakl II addresses to Russia with the request for acceptance of Kartli-Kakheti (2 states of Georgia) under protection [2];

1783-July-24 - The Treaty of Georgievsk is signed between the Imperial Russia and the Kingdom of Kartli-Kakheti (2 states of Georgia) about transition of Kartli and Kakheti (2 states of Georgia) under protectorate of Russia. (Today's "South Ossetia" [3] is on territories of the Georgian kingdom of Kartli of that time [4]). After joining of Ossetia (today's North Ossetia) and transition of Kartli and Kakheti (2 states of Georgia) under protectorate of Russia, formation of Osset settlements on plain of the North Caucasus and in a foothill strip of Georgia (which later and becomes "South Ossetia") has begun. This process, proceeding the long period, has come to the end only in a Soviet period, after mass resettlement of mountaineers on plain [5].

1800 - Pavel I Manifesto on abolition of Kartli-Kakheti kingdoms and joining of East Georgia to Russia [6];

By the 1770s census, 2860 ossetian families lived in Machabeli principality. By 1804s statistics, 12 ossetian families and by 1922s statistics 613 families lived in Tshinvali. In 1989s population of South Ossetia reached:

65,200 (66.2%) Ossetians (1.4% of all Georgia population)
28,700 (29.0%) Georgians
2,128 (2,1%) Russians
871 (1,21%) Armenians
648 (0,9%) Jews
5,100 (4.8%) Others

1802 - Population and princes of Kakheti protests against Russian occupation [7];

1804 - Revolt in Kartli [8] (Today's "South Ossetia" is on territories of the Georgian kingdom of Kartli);

1918-May-25 – Georgia declares independence following the Russian revolution [9].

1921 – The Red Army invades. The South Ossetians are accused of siding with the Kremlin.

1922 - Georgia becomes a founder member of the Soviet Union. The South Ossetian Autonomous Oblast (district) is created within Georgia in April 1922.

1989 - Demands for more autonomy in the South Ossetia region lead to violent clashes between Georgians and Ossetians.

1990-91 – South Ossetia declares its intentions to secede, leading to more clashes.

1991 – The Soviet Union collapses.

1992 – South Ossetians vote in favour of independence (95%) in an unrecognised referendum. (Please note that 29% of "South Ossetia" population are Georgians - 95% for independence from Georgia - unrealistic number). Hundreds die in sporadic violence, which continues until June when Russian, Georgian and South Ossetian leaders meet to sign an armistice and agree the creation of a tripartite peacekeeping force.

1992-1993 - More than 25,000 Georgians were expelled from Tskhinvali as well, and many Ossetian families were forced to abandon their homes in the Borjomi region and move to Russia.

November 1993 - South Ossetia drafts its own constitution.

November 1996 - South Ossetia elects its first president.

December 2001 - South Ossetia elects wrestling champion Eduard Kokoity as president in unrecognised elections.

2002 – Kokoity asks Moscow to recognise the republic's independence and absorb it into Russia.

2003 – The Georgian president, Eduard Shevardnadze, is toppled in the rose revolution.

2004 - Mikhail Saakashvili wins Georgian presidential election and declares his intentions to bring breakaway regions of South Ossetia, Abkhazia and Ajaria back into the fold.

2006 - South Ossetians vote overwhelmingly in favour of independence (99%) from Georgia. (Please note that 29% of "South Ossetia" population are Georgians - 99% for independence from Georgia - unrealistic number).

The present composition of the population is unknown, although according to some estimates there were 45,000 ethnic Ossetians and 17,500 ethnic Georgians in South Ossetia in 2007

[edit] References

[edit] A part of Georgia

South Ossetia and Abhazia as legally within Georgia and it should say so. The international community (union of democratic states) all recognize the presence of these lands within Georgia. They were part of the Georgian socialist republic and Georgia had the right to break away from Russia. I am sick to death of hearing comparisons with Kosovo as there can be none. Kosovo was invaded by the Serbian army back in the 1980s with the hope of Milosevic creating Greater Serbia but it otherwise had the same rights as the other Yugoslav republics. That is the reason why the international community recognizes Kosovo. Until democratic states such as the UK, the US, Australia, France and Germany formally recognize South Ossetia and Abhazia and Transdinister, please all refrain from putting any form of independent on the article, it is becoming vandalism. Billy Bollox (talk) 11:32, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

Furthermore, Kosovo was the scene of horrific genocide and ethnic cleansing carried out by Greater Serbia militiamen. I bet nobody who calls Ossetia independent saw the millions of innocent civilians flung out of their homes followed by seeing their houses burnt in front of their eyes before others were killed and so on. Why? Because they were Albanian. Kosovo had a right to be independent. In Ossetia and Abhazia, it was the ethnic Georgians who were victims of atrocity thanks to Russian imperialists, communists and local traitors. Billy Bollox (talk) 11:35, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

It's already written in the intro that most of the countries consider Abkhazia & SO as parts of Georgia. Alæxis_¿question? 11:46, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

Billy Bollox, even if you are ...sick to death of hearing comparisons with Kosovo... there is a big connection between Kosovo's and SO's precedents. Please also note that SO is de facto independent and you cannot do anything about it, except one thing - vandalising. Taamu (talk) 13:08, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

Billy Bollox, even if you are ...sick to death of hearing comparisons with Kosovo... wikipedia has it's rules forbidding soapboxing.--TheFEARgod (Ч) 12:10, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

Almost every nation considers South Ossetia to be part of Georgia. Surely the flag displayed on this Wikipedia article should be the flag of Georgia. Even given that the flag displayed is recognised as that of the Georgian autonomous republic of South Ossetia, shouldn't Wikipedia at least display two flags, the Georgian national flag alongside the regional flag? Graemedavis (talk) 22:43, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

South Ossetia and Kosovo are exactly the same, with 90% similarities. Kosovo is somewhat independent, i see no reason why S.O. shouldn't be any different. I understand the Georgian anger over the issue.24.36.56.26 (talk) 04:37, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

Agreed here, but while we're at it, does the need to mention every recognition seem important? It is mentioned elsewhere. Obviously the first is important, especially when more isolated. But see kosovo, the infobox doesn't mention any recognition, only declared independence. Lihaas (talk) 10:33, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Same starting descripton as Kosovo

Am i the only person here who thinks that the introduction to S.O and Kosovo should be the same? They are both partially recognised, Defacto independant nations.

Unless there are any objections, I will update accordingly in 7 days. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.68.51.2 (talk) 14:30, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

Yes, I wanted to suggest just that. Should stem the incessant lead revert warring somewhat. --Illythr (talk) 17:07, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

My hands go up too. They are much the same. If one can be an indep. country so can the other. I tried doing the same on Abkhazia too. Lihaas (talk) 17:19, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Alleged NPOVification

The following edit was reverted for being NPOV. I don't want to get into an edit war, so I will wait for consensus here. But see the above conversation, too quote me "one can be an indep. country so can the other." South Ossetia's independence has been acknowledged and recognized, as per kosovo, and regardless of the fact whether it is liked or not, the truth is reality.

Elsewhere, there are many regimes, states and non-state actors who don't like other regimes, but the reality stays. kosovo has become indep and recognized, even though Serbia and Russia don't want it. I'm sure the usa would like to see an Iran governed by the shah, but that is not the reality and they work their interests through the swiss embassy on Tehran. The point is, under what grounds should Wikipedia allow South Ossetia to be "within georgia?" Lihaas (talk) 17:18, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

This is a valid POV as well, as most countries do consider S Oss part of Georgia. I think the lead from Kosovo would fit well here, first mentioning is as a disputed region in the South Caucasus, then that it's under control of the Rep of S Oss, then its non-recognition by Georgia, eventually clarifying the recognition status. --Illythr (talk) 18:40, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

That's fine, i agree with on the consideration that kosovo has to have the same too. neither is kosovo recognized by most states. Lihaas (talk) 23:35, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

Eh, "independent republic...located in Georgia" kinda sucks. I still think the Kosovo formulation would be better here. Actually, I can understand Kober's edit - this version underrepresents the Georgian POV in the lead by not mentioning that, first of all, Georgia considers S Oss to be its constituent part. The lead style of the Kosovo article would address that. --Illythr (talk) 01:28, 18 November 2008 (UTC)