Talk:Soap

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[edit] Soap Ingredients

It seems to be a well known fact on the web that soap manufacturers extract the glycerin during the process and make their "soaps" from detergents, etc. Can this be documented anywhere and it is a standard practice? If so does this not make commercial soaps and handmade soaps differ chemically and would not be the same end product?

--Soapforgoodnesssake 16:23, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Of course the differ chemically. They aren't the same thing at all, they just happen to be substitutes and people tend to be sloppy with wordchoice. --Belg4mit 00:44, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Pop soap culture

I moved the following from the Purification and finishing section of the article:

While I get the reference (making soap out of liposuction medical waste, as in the film), I don't really see the relevance to the current encyclopedia article on soap. Maybe it could be rephrased, moved to a section like "Soap in popular culture", or moved to saponification? Saucepan 18:42, 25 May 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Dubious 'fact'

The article says that a disadvantage of soap and why it is not used to day is that it dries out the skin. This is true of commercial soap which has been stipped of its natural glycerine, but hand-made soap contains glycerine which softens and moisturises the skin. [[User:Whiskers|whiskers (talk)]] 18:35, 15 Sep 2004 (UTC)

The article could use a lot of work, and the "dubious fact" may be a bit dubious, but not for the reason given above. It is not clear that glycerine in soap has the stated benefits or lacks that disadvantage. -- robgood@bestweb.net , 12/18/04

[edit] Another dubious fact

H3nryH3nry 20:32, 2 April 2007 (UTC)Can you tell me if this is a real, unreal or dubious fact?

There is a phrase 'as ugly as homemade soap'.

If it is real, can it go somewhere on the page?

[edit] Castile soap

What is Castile soap, exactly? Is it the same as what the French call savon de Marseille? David.Monniaux 17:08, 14 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Oui, the french savon de Marseille is based on Castile soap, which was based on the famous and older Aleppo soap, which is based on a recipe that has been used by the Mesopotamians for over 4000 years. All these *Traditional Soaps* are based on olive oil and soda ash! Aleppo Soap has not only olive oil, in addition is has Laurel oil (15% bay leaf extract).217.232.82.71 (talk) 06:14, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] The "Mount Sapo" hoax

Pliny the Elder, in Historia Naturalis 28:51, writes:

Prodest et sapo, Galliarum hoc inventum rutilandis capillis. Fit ex sebo et cinere, optimus fagino et caprino, duobus modis, spissus ac liquidus, uterque apud Germanos maiore in usu viris quam feminis.

You also have soap (sapo), an invention of the Gauls for making their hair shiny. It is made from tallow and ashes, the best from beechwood ash and goat fat, and exists in two forms, solid and liquid; both are used more by men than women among the Germans.

This is the first mention of soap in Latin literature. The tale about "Mount Sapo" is implausible for a number of reasons; there was no such place, the ancient Roman legend which this claims to relate to appears in no ancient Roman author that I can determine, and the Romans did not sacrifice the edible parts of animals such as the fat. I believe that "Mount Sapo" is a hoax, and it may be a hoax that started here. Smerdis of Tlön 14:07, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

I'm the one that added the reference to the Mount Sapo legend- [[1]]. I also cited my source. Stop overreacting. --Brunnock 17:17, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

The text at Mount Sapo originally suggested, at least to me, that the story was original to Wikipedia. It isn't, and I've rewritten that one to make it clear. Smerdis of Tlön 20:13, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] soap maker

Does anybody know what soap makers in the medieval times wore?

Someone needs to deal with the propaganda against "commercial soap" listed in "disadvantages". I don't have the time now.

[edit] Etymology

I dont know if you are interested, but "soap" derives from Ancient Greek σάπων, sapon, a Gallic invention (hair-dye) adopted by the Germans acc. to Plin.HN28.191, if you wish to include the etymology section. Kassios

A bit late of a reply, but: no it doesnt. Soap comes directly from the Germanic word. It did not go from Germanic through Greek and then back into English again, which would be pretty silly. Haplolology ^Talk/_{Contributions} 20:28, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Body Wash

What about Body Wash and moisterizors? How are those compared to just soap and liquid detergents? 165.230.46.151 16:35, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sodium Laureth Sulfate

Should some clarification be made about sodium laureth sulfate being a disadvantage of soap? Many people will interpret the cons of soap as a comparison to (non-soap) detergents. Sodium laureth sulfate is in fact a non-soap detergent. The article should bring out this distinction more, that non-soap detergents are chemically irritating to the skin, whereas soap may dry out the skin, but is usually not irritating itself in pure form.

[edit] still doesnt define

what, by definition is soap. i mean what ingredient makes "real" soap soap and a detergent bar nor soap?

the article doesn strongly define this and since many people are told not to use soap i think this would be useful information

when i asked my doctor whether someone should avoid soaps or all detergents if they are told they are sensitive to soap she didnt know the answer.

needless to say i wasnt impressed because many detergent washes such as sanex are soap free but could still cause a problem. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 82.24.118.196 (talk) 22:37, 19 December 2006 (UTC).

Real soap is made by combining fatty acids with an alkali (most soapers use vegetable or animal fats and sodium hydroxide). A chemical reaction starts, the alkali combines with the fatty acids, and create soap molecules.

What I have discovered in my years of making soap, is that most people react to detergents, ie, SLS, or the fragrances or colorants in soap, but not the soap itself. Most fats used to make soap are edible fats, ie, olive oil, soybean oil, beef fat (tallow). Few people have a reaction to those.

[edit] Expired soap?

Can it expire? What are the consequences? Let this be the first page that is easily found and has an answer. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.183.106.181 (talk) 08:09, 6 May 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Soapmaking

I agree that it should be merged and redirected (in)to soap, or perhaps soaper. --Belg4mit 16:16, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Combining with the Soap Article

I don't see any further discussion of this, but I definitely think this article should be combined with the Soap article. DopplerShift 13:57, 17 May 2007 (UTC)DopplerShift

I agree, no need to have a whole article about making soap. Spartyboy40 20:37, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Agree! --BBird 14:00, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Soap substitutes (plants) advantages for the developing world

In the article, it should be mentioned that for the developing world, soap plants as Sapindus, Soapwort, ...) may help to alleviate poverty as growing these plants is way cheaper than buying commercial soap. As hygiene is very important amongst the poor in the developing world (as the space in which they live mostly contains allot of bacteria, ..., trough poor sanitation and sewage, ...), increasing the availability of soap substitutes would make sure they get sick less, decreasing mortality, health expenditures, ...

But are they really cheaper? And are they really that effective? Haplolology ^Talk/_{Contributions} 13:17, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Eating Soap

My sister made me some cookies, but they tasted really soapy. Is it dangerous to eat food with soap in it? --The burning bush 22:50, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

It can be. Depends on the soap. Read the label. --wpktsfs 22:57, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

Dangerous? I don't know, but I do know that eating soap can give you a case of diarrhea. I heard about someone doing this to some guys over in Iraq and they US Soldiers got busted bad....they considered it terriorism because the victums were out of commision a few days. Soap irritates the colon, which is why it is also used in enemas.

[edit] Holy Linkbloat, Batman!

I removed the mind-numbing explosion of links to soap-making sites. This has gotten completely and utterly out of hand. I added one link to a site that seems to contain a variety of information about soap-making as a nod to the above removals. If anyone feels there is a better *single site* that acts as a good *single representative gateway* for soapmaking information, then feel free to modify this entry. Dxco 03:00, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

Hi I just wanted to know what is soaps chemical class?

please post it if you know...

ta Doughety

[edit] Redirecting soaps -> Soap opera

Since "soap" is the plural of "soap", and "soaps" is often used to refer to "soap operas", I am redirecting soaps to soap opera. --Henry W. Schmitt 19:46, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

nevermind. -Henry W. Schmitt (talk) 19:37, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Sticky hands?

Why are your hands sticky after using soap? Isn't it supposed to clean them? Or is it some residue? Pvt. Green (talk) 00:53, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

I've never experienced sticky hands after using Soap. Thats one reason to use soap, removes stickiness. Maybe you are using a bad brand? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.158.154.210 (talk) 23:07, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure.. Take a bar of soap (any brand) and wash your hands.. After washing, if you try to rub your hands together, it makes them "sticky".Pvt. Green (talk) 19:17, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Soap nuts

Anyone heard of 'Soapnuts', a Japanese type of nut which gives off a soap-like residue? Seemingly they use these nuts to clean clothes. --Quatermass (talk) 15:41, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

You mean Sapindus?--217.232.87.208 (talk) 09:17, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Deodorant Soap

seems like there should be something here about the popular deodorant subcategory of soap, and what typically is added to create that kind of soap. Any experts here on that topic? I don't know enough to start it. But I'm surprised to not see something on Wikipedia about it... maybe other soap subtypes could have a small mention in a section on specialized uses of soap? - Owlmonkey (talk) 06:47, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] The Saponified Corpses in Sicily

This is a commonly pointed-to example of incorruptibility. However, the bodies are not remaining in the same state as they were at death, like most incorruptibles; but instead they are turning into inhuman-looking piles of soap. It's probably just a matter of it being really moist down there. If this means anything it means that saponification and incorruptibility aren't the same thing. Soap ^Talk/_{Contributions} 18:57, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Earliest history

I have reverted some edits that claim the earliest use of soap. My reason is not merely that they were unverified (if 5,000 years ago why not more) and they assumed this was the first usage, but more importantly that this was not about soap which is the subject of the article. Soap is a fatty acid salt and is usually made by reacting fat with alakli. There are plenty of natural products with a "soapy" feel or that were and are used in washing which are not soaps. saponins being one such example. Early use of natural washing agents has no place in this article really. Some verified information about early soap usage would (on the other hand) be very interesting. Francis Davey (talk) 13:52, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

The earliest known use of a natural soap-like substance was the powder of the Reeta (Sapindus) nut, which was used by Indians since antiquity. Hindus in India were obliged to bathe at least once a day, every morning, in accordance with Ayurveda. Evidence of manufactured soap use are Babylonian clay cylinders dating from 2800 BC containing a soap-like substance. A formula for soap consisting of water, alkali and cassia oil was written on a Babylonian clay tablet around 2200 BC. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.10.173.29 (talk) 19:27, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

The reason why that does not belong in this article is that the active detergent in soap nuts is a saponin. It is not a fatty acid salt. The early history of the soap nut really has nothing to do with this article. There is a second problem which is that there is no citation for "earliest known use". That (to me) seems unlikely since the earliest histories are non-Indian (they are in fact Sumerian) and it is in the nature of soaps and other detergents that they are very unlikely to survive in archeology so one is almost entirely reliant on historical records. This is of some interest to me because I am researching a history of soap and the early part is most difficult. Francis Davey (talk) 23:28, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

I also ought to add that one of the reasons your edits are unpopular is that you are deleting material that was in the article (the reference to the Babylonian usage) which is tantamount to vandalism. Don't do it. Francis Davey (talk) 23:30, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

keep your nationalism to yourself, and stick to the original text complaints have been sent —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.10.173.29 (talk • contribs)

I have no idea why you should think I am motivated by nationalism. Perhaps you would care to explain why. You appear not to be willing to discuss this matter, or to be advised on how properly to behave as a wikipedia citizen. Deleting existing material to put your own unrelated material into an article is bad form, whether or not what you do put in is correct. Refusing to discuss the substance of a dispute is also rather poor. It is also good policy to sign your comments (read the link concerning Wikipedia:Signatures) that I pointed to above. I still hope that, with practice, you will become a useful contributor to wikipedia, but you do have to understand the way that things work here. Please discuss here why you think your material is relevant to this page and what your source is for the information that you are putting in. It may be that (assuming you do have references) early use of the Sapindus tree in India is of interest, but not as far as I can see in Soap. Maybe an article on this history of hygiene or perhaps detergents? Francis Davey (talk) 12:57, 6 September 2008 (UTC)