Talk:Sharia

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Assessment comments The following comments were left by the assessors: (edit · refresh) i dont know where you get your refrences from but unmarried sex with slaves and captives of war is definitely not permitted in islam. i disguatsts me how you can say th

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[edit] Gay contemporary issues should be changed to Gay executions and torture

I wrote the following below for that section but it was deemed vandalism. It seems there's a reluctance to accept the truth on the part of the person in charge of the article. You might want to take the one below as a more informative and truthful article.

"Gross human rights violations

Gay executions and torture

   Main article: Homosexuality and Islam

Sharia law may be considered as one of the world's most homophobic legal system with regards to the complete lack of decriminalisation laws (with executions and punishments commonplace), non-existent anti-discrimination laws, no incitement to hatred laws (Hate crime) neither does it have provision for Same-sex unions or same-sex marriage. It does not recognise fundamental Human rights based on sexual-orientation. In fact, many Western countries now recognise the right of gay people from Iran to claim asylum in Europe and the US as a result of the 2005 execution of two gay minors(children) Mahmoud Asgari and Ayaz Marhoni. The following countries prescribe the death penalty for homosexuality: Iran, UAE, Sudan, Nigeria, Mauritania, Saudi Arabia, Yemen and Somalia.

The current President of Iran has said that there are no gays in Iran, a statement which provoked horror and outrage accross the world. Some gay Iranians have successfully applied for asylum in Western countries and their stories are being retold in national and international media and politicians taking up their cause. Although, sex-change operations are legal in Iran, many believe sex-changes are being exploited by the Iranian government to convert gays into something more acceptable to an extremely conservative Islamic society (Be Like Others).

The highly-respected European Court of Human Rights ruled that Sharia was incompatible with the European Convention on Human Rights as it contravenes: (Article 8 - right to respect for private life) which guarantees certain inalienable rights to all people such as the right to have a private life and family life (including gay people) without State interference, (Article 14 - prohibition of discrimination based on sexual-orientation), (Article 3 - prohibition of torture(lashes), (Article 2 - right to life) and (Article 10 - right to freedom of expression)." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.134.201.226 (talk) 10:55, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Interesting, no doubt, but the question is: how much does this actually have to do with shari'a? Claiming that shari'a "does not recognise fundamental Human rights based on sexual-orientation" is strictly speaking true, but then shari'a does not really have a concept of "human rights" comparable to the post-Enlightenment Western idea, only of man's duties to society and to God. The antics of the president of Iran have precious little to do with the matter in hand. I would also point out that, while homosexual activity is illicit under the shari'a, the prescribed penalties differ from one school of jurisprudence to another. 131.111.220.6 (talk) 09:53, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Categories/topics

There are four categories of Islamic law:

• Ibadah (laws concerning religious duties)
• Mu'amelat (laws concerning transactions)
• Munakehat (civil law)
• Uqubat (laws concerning punishment)

Source:Farhad Nomani and Ali Rahnema. Islamic Economic systems, 1994, p. 25-7.

In the future I shall organize the article under such a system.Bless sins (talk) 05:08, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] map

is it possible to create a map where it says which countries or regions use the sharia? As for Aceh in Indonesia for example, what the status is there. Mallerd (talk) 17:23, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Nicely POV'ed article

That's a nice job that's been done here to portray the Sharia as almost the best thing since sliced bread. Reading this, one would almost welcome it in their society! It's just too bad this article has almost no relation with real life, and how it's being applied in Islam cultures. Such a shame. Elfguy (talk) 18:47, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for commenting on the article. If there's additional material you'd like to see included feel free to add it (along with references). Euryalus (talk)

I second Elfguy's observations. This article reeks of apologetic bias. Kmanoj (talk) 07:42, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

The modern Islamic law section contains plenty of criticism of Sharia as it is now practiced in Islamic countries. If that's the case, then should I assume that you are referring to the classical Islamic law section rather than the modern section? The article makes a clear distinction between Sharia as it is now practiced in Islamic countries and Islamic law as it was practiced in the classical period. There's no need to drag modern politics into the medieval section, if that is what you're trying to suggest. Jagged 85 (talk) 22:16, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Be WP:Bold. correct it if you feel the need. Lihaas (talk) 00:11, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

[edit] semi lock

should this page needs be semi locked with its apparent controversy and vandalism. at least for awhile? http://en.wikipedia.orgindex.php?title=Talk:Sharia&action=history Lihaas (talk) 17:14, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Addition by User: 59.93.178.154

The term Sharia in Arabic means "way" or "path to the water source". Sharia is the body of Islamic religious law—the legal framework within which the public and private aspects of life are regulated based on Islamic principles of jurisprudence and for Muslims living outside the domain. Sharia deals with many of the important aspects of everyday life— politics, economics, banking, business, contracts, family, sexuality, hygiene, and social issues. Sharia does not consist of any static set of laws. Sharia is rather a system, which helps us understand how law ought to serve humanity, a consensus of the unified spirit, based on the Qur'an (the religious text of Islam), hadith (sayings and doings of Muhammad and his companions), Ijma (consensus), Qiyas (reasoning by analogy) and centuries of debate, interpretation and precedent. Most Sunni Muslims follow Hanafi, Hanbali, Maliki or Shafii, while most Shia Muslims follow the jaafari school of thought and are considered Twelvers. Historical Origin—The Islamic law pivots around the sacred teachings of God and the pious acts and holy sayings of His Prophet, Muhammad; therefore, sharia, Islamic law, is founded on the Qur'an and the Sunnah. Interestingly, sharia was not fully developed at the time of Muhammad's death, but rather it evolved around the Muslim community or Ummah through which it would serve. Geographical Origin—Sharia began its formation in the deserts of Arabia about 1,400 years ago when Islam was born. At that time, a sense of community did not exist. Life in the desert was typically nomadic and tribal. However, Islam challenged this restless nomadic ideology and gathered all those who professed their faith to Islam under the umbrella of the Ummah. Notably, Islam was not just a religion but a way of life. So, to transform those who were once enemies into neighbors, laws had to be instilled and thus the doctrines of Sharia took root. All Muslims are judged by Sharia. After the death of Muhammad, Sharia continued to undergo fundamental changes, beginning with the reigns of caliphs Abu Bakr (632-34) and Umar (634-44) in which many important decision making matters were brought into the attention of the Prophet's closest comrades for consultation. In AD 662, during the reign of Mu'awiya b. Abu Sufyan, life went through an urban transformation and ceased to be nomadic any longer. Consequently, it created matters that were not originally covered by Islamic law. Islamic private international law had to be created because of the vast Muslim conquests and maritime explorations. Elaborate rules for private international law regarding issues, such as contracts and property, family relations and child custody, legal procedure and jurisdiction, religious conversion, and the return of aliens to an enemy country from the Islamic world, were developed. Departing significantly from the previously practiced Roman and Byzantine maritime laws Islamic law also made commendable contributions to international admiralty law. These included Muslim sailors being paid a fixed wage “in advance” with an understanding that they would owe money in the event of desertion or malfeasance.

Removed from main article space as apperred to be duplication and unref - I leave it to editors to sort our benjicharlton (talk) 05:50, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Sharia For Muslim minorities in non-Muslim countries

The United Kingdom is introducing Sharia courts in five cities with sizeable Muslim populations. These will run alongside the conventional judicial system and rule on issues within Muslim communities. This needs to be added to the article, as it has major implications on the spread of Islam - and what does it mean for people who have converted away from Islam, which is their right under European law?--MartinUK (talk) 09:48, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

You could add a sub-section dealing with this topic under the "Contemporary issues" section. Regards, Jagged 85 (talk) 01:14, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

thorougly cited, of course. Lihaas (talk) 01:34, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Common Law and Shari'a

I do not buy the assertion that English Common Law( I think this is ok to leave English law, because they never had Laws but laws of the Romans) -- let alone the law of Trusts and so on -- was borrowed from or influenced by shari'a. For one thing, the Common Law in its infancy was clearly 'at least' contemporary with King Arthur, who predates Mohammed by about half a century. For another, many elements of shari'a may be found in tribal legal traditions worldwide -- e.g. among the Hebrew nomadic herdsmen, the legal doctrine laid out in Exodus 21ff -- which resemble ECL in a number of ways, the most notable being that most property crimes are regarded as matters moderns would call "civil" rather than "criminal" -- the latter category being reserved for crimes against the unity of the tribe, blasphemy and so on.

Humans seem to have an inherent sense of fairness, along with a sense of what is required to hold the tribe together on a planet where most of the world not covered with ice is inhabited by tigers and hostile tribes and sea monsters and elephants and such. This is reflected in ancient legal systems from the Celts to Rome to the Navajo; it is not surprising that we find echoes of it among the ancient Arabs.

-- Craig Goodrich 68.58.135.168 (talk) 05:11, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

I strongly suspect the post above is correct. While I don't know enough about the history of law to edit, the article gives a strong feeling of having been taken over by tangential fringe theories to which verrrrry long sections are devoted. for example: http://en.wikipedia.org/description/Sharia#Comparisons_with_common_law In short, it's a mess. --BoogaLouie (talk) 22:02, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Human rights

the "Human rights" sections doesn't have much to do with Human rights in the conventional sense. What does "successor" and "democratic participation" have to do with this? Lihaas (talk) 00:03, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Article needs work

Below is a sentence from another wikipedia article concerning Sharia:

Victims of private crimes, such as murder or rape, can exercise a right to retribution (Qisas) or decide to accept "blood money" (Diyyah or Talion Law).

The idea that murder is a "private crime" and what a "private crime" is ought to be covered in any wikipedia article on sharia, but its particuarly important for articles written for non-Muslim cultures, such as this english-language article. Until recently sharia concepts such as "private crime" were completely alien to English-speaking countries/cultures and english-speaking/reading people. Such people are likely to be looking for and expecting to find information in this article on stuff like "private crimes" vs. crimes that violate the rights of god, on the different categories and reasons for them in Sharia law.

What do they get? A very long article full of unlikely explanations of how English common law is related to sharia; how no one need worry that hands and feet or heads will be amputated unnecessarily as Sharia punishment and other apologia.

This article is not very useful to the general public or anyone else. It needs major changes. --BoogaLouie (talk) 22:31, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Sharia incompatable with Human rights

The House of Lords has said that Sharia is incompatable with Human rights. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/oct/23/religion-islam Discuss!^{(Hypnosadist)} 06:55, 24 October 2008 (UTC) Human rights are preserved in Islam, Sharia has the principle of Justice. So for Execusion: If someone takes a life, then his life should be spared. That is only Just for human nature.This will minimize crimes. An eye for An eye, and Tooth for a Tooth is a principle in Islam.

Sharia Law perserves the Human race from being lost due to human factors.. such as Being gay may actually cause the los of human race. Gay people will have less human, therefore the human race will turn gay and not become productive any more. More gay crimes will happen such as rapping of kids that are adopted by gay couples because they are not thier parents. If gay is in the genes, so is violent person. why would it be ok to be gay if you have gay gene, but can not be a free criminal if you happen to have that gene. Human rights is created by humans or westerners that do not know about the east or the middle east or thier cultures.

[edit] More apologia

The following was recently deleted from the article:

IslamOnline Shariah researchers conclude that Islam defends freedom of speech and fosters freedom of ideas.^[1]

The citation leads to a short article answering the question What does Islam say about terrorism and the fight for religion?

A short section in the article says:

Islam Defends Tolerance And Freedom of Speech:

Islam is a religion, which fosters freedom of life, ideas and thought. It has forbidden tension and conflict among people, calumny, suspicion and even having negative thoughts about another individual.

To force anyone to believe in a religion or to practice it is against the spirit and essence of Islam. Because it is necessary that faith be accepted with free will and conscience. Of course, Muslims may urge one another to keep the moral precepts taught in the Qur'an, but they never use compulsion. In any case, an individual cannot be induced to the practice of religion by either threat or offering him a worldly privilege.

That's all it says.

Does this really qualify by wikipedia regs as a proper source? --BoogaLouie (talk) 19:51, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

[edit] 13 yr old rape victim stoned to death

In Somalia 1000 people enjoyed watching a live Snuff film of a 13 yr old rape victim be stoned in a football stadium. -->http://edition.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/africa/11/01/amnesty.rape.somalia.ap/index.html?iref=mpstoryview ^{(Hypnosadist)} 06:04, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

This is due to the fact of Media and Stoning of a victim is not Islamic, but it is a culture in Somalia. This is Media and can not trust media. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mralmawri (talk • contribs) 08:59, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

"Stoning of a victim is not Islamic, but it is a culture in Somalia" I would laugh at you but your attitude is going to get the next girl stoned to death. Until muslims who "claim" this is not islamic get of thier ass and do something about it, very few people will believe you. ^{(Hypnosadist)} 16:00, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Raped girl, 13, stoned to death in Mogadishu

I'm not sure where (or whether) this belongs in this article, but here's a news story i just stumbled across reporting that A 13-year-old girl who said she had been raped was stoned to death on on October 27 in Mogadishu, Somalia after being accused of adultery by Islamic militants

Those Islamic Militants are not really the islamic jurisdicts, and also this is just news not facts. This happens in may third world countries and does not have to do with islam..

At the time of Mohamed(PBUH), a woman came and told him she is pregnant from adultry, he let her go and told her to repent... not until she was really wanting to die after she gave birth to her kid about 2 years after... So this is a cultural thing, not islamic to prosecute them like that.: Raped girl, 13, stoned to death, South Africa: News24, 1 November 2008, http://www.news24.com/News24/Africa/News/0,,2-11-1447_2419716,00.html, retrieved on 2 November 2008 . -- Boracay Bill (talk) 06:36, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

See above. And yes it should be in as it is a prime example of Sharia in action. ^{(Hypnosadist)} 07:38, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

A later report on this by the BBC says, "She was asked several times to review her confession but she stressed that she wanted Sharia law and the deserved punishment to apply, ..." -- Boracay Bill (talk) 23:48, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

Lol, using a quote from the article that misles you into thinking she actually wanted Sharia law. I just read this same BBC article and was horrified Sharia Law approves of this -- except it doesn't apparently she was too young to be punished this way... and the next quote illustrates Sharia's opinion of mercy: "They said: 'We will do what Allah has instructed us'. She said: 'I'm not going, I'm not going. Don't kill me, don't kill me.'" 124.138.185.194 (talk) 01:11, 5 November 2008 (UTC)(Sorry, forgot to login Darkpoet (talk) 01:12, 5 November 2008 (UTC))