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Archive 1 Sep 2002 - May 2007

[edit] Succession box

We decided quite some time ago that Nicholas II was indeed the final tsar and there is no such thing as Michael II. I have undone the historic vandalism in the succession box. http://en.wikipedia.org/description/Talk:Nicholas_II_of_Russia/Archive_1#Michael_II._Protected

Please don't make these controversial edits without consensus, thank you. James5555 (talk) 06:35, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

"{{BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH" at the start, and is his title REALLY "Emperor and Autocrat of all the Russia's"? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.44.210.162 (talk) 01:10, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

Fixed and yes (but note it's "Russias", not "Russia's").—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 13:44, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Fake Anastasia...

In the article it says that there was DNA testing done on the Anna that Hollywood made the movies out of, that wasn't possible she had her body cremated. She did, however have appendicitis (spelling?) forcing her to have her appendix removed. Her appendix was saved and thats what the DNA testing was done on.

I know its just one of those little nit~picky things, but it bothered me.

I don't have a source for this one, I just saw it on an HBO special, Autopsy: A Special. It was something like that. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.82.9.105 (talk) 04:51, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Peacock and other issues

This article suffers from a considerable amount of creeping violation of WP:Peacock, in that it has been too much edited by people who wish to portray the Tsar as variously a hero, a misinformed but basically good man, a martyr, a victim of the Jewish conspiracy etc. without providing much in the way of solid evidence. It is not the job of Wikipedia contributors to pass judgment on Nicholas II's lovableness, gentleness, good nature etc., or for that matter on his lack of same, but to report faithfully what a variety of existing sources had to say about him. The article is at present too much inclined to argue in Nicholas II's favour, when it should restrict itself to reporting the fact that there are and have always been arguments about him. It is not up to us to tell people what kind of guy he was, but to give them enough hard information to enable them to use their own judgment and make up their own minds. I am accordingly tagging the article. It's also too long, so I'm tagging that too; for example, I am surprised to note that the assassination section does not contain a link to a separate article on the assassination itself. Lexo (talk) 22:07, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

I agree. I've tried a little copyediting here and there and remove the most obvious cruft, but the whole article should be reworked by someone who's an expert on the issue and has the necessary sources. Also, some stuff should be moved into the existing sub-pages, and there should not be too much duplication between them... Averell (talk) 19:03, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Hi everyone! Im rather new to Wikipedia and I certainly do not have a PhD on the subject, but I do have somewhere between 20 and 30 books on the Romanovs and Russian history, as it is the topic of my master's thesis. I don't know what kind of sources you need, but if you email me at Keltara@roadrunner.com and know what you are doing with editing the pages, I'll be more than happy to look up whatever I can with and reply with the sources. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Keltara (talk • contribs) 18:11, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

Hi Keltara, and thank your for your offer. If you have some knowledge of the topic, just have a go at the article! You don't even need to sign up to edit, and if you should make a mistake people will surely help you out. Maybe you could first check if the current facts in the article are correct, or if important things are missing. You can always use the talk page to discuss things with the other editors. I strongly recommend that you remove your email address from this page, it will get picked up by all kinds of spammers. People can write messages on your user page. You can also enable the "email feature" in your Wikipedia account that will people let you send private mail (without having to disclose your address). It's also good to sign your comments here with four tilde (~) signs - this will "sign your name" Averell (talk) 15:38, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Murder/Killing/Execution...?

Someone deleted the word "murder" and replaced it with "assassination" or "execution". I wonder if the term "murder" should not apply - this is the term usually used for illegal killings. An "assassination" it is not, clearly. "Execution" implies that the killing was legal under some code of law, which I don't see here (especially since the whole family is included). I'd opt for the term "murder", but if someone finds this too POV we could probably settle for the neutral (but slightly awkward) term "killing"? Averell (talk) 17:04, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

Saying he was murdered is not POV because murder is what it was...I think. Gavin Scott (talk) 17:46, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

Another person writes to agree that this article needs to be re-written by someone who is trying neither to justify nor to damn Nicholas Romanov. It is absurd to credit him personally with the massacre of Bloody Sunday and with Russian losses in the First World Way. One must understand how the world was, and how he was in it. If you want to judge a man you must understand his vision, his hopes, and how he saw the future. It is easy to judge with hindsight, but it is also facile. Because we always see what went wrong, but we cannot see what might have been. While I am not a 'fan' of Nicholas Romanov, I do not see, in this article, his wider vision and his hopes. These were not only his personal hopes and projections, but real potentials that existed in Russia a century ago. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.81.100.246 (talk) 00:35, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Passion-bearer vs. Martyr

There is no a priori distinction between a martyr and passion-bearer in the case of Nicholas II, as this article claims. We read in the ROCOR version of the prayer at the Litia:

[Molitvami] svyatykh slavnykh i dobropobednykh muchenikov i svyatykh strastoterptsev: Tsarya Muchenika Nikolaya, Tsaritsy Aleksandry, Tsarevicha Aleksiya, Tsareven Olgi, Tatiany, Marii, i Anastasii i vsekh novomuchenikov i ispovednikov tserkve rossiiskiya

[Throught the prayers of] the holy glorious and victorious martyrs and the holy passion-bearers: Tsar-Martyr Nicholas, Tsaritsa Alexandra, Crown Prince Alexey, Grand Duchessess Olga, Tatiana, Maria and Anastasia, and all the New-Martyrs and Confessors of the Russian Church. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.100.161.245 (talk) 20:24, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

[edit] 100,000 dead soldiers per day

I read somewhere in the internet, that Nicolas II was sending soldiers to the battle with no uniforms, no boots, and no rifles. The slaughter was so bad, that there were days he was losing up to 100,000 people per day! Can someone help find this information? It would be interesting to think, what kind of a person would: 1. Celebrate his marriage, having a few thousand people stomped to death, (this is why he was called "bloody" first time) 2. Have peaceful demonstration of peasants executed,(this is why he was called "bloody" second time) 3. Send millions to their death just for his pleasure, and finally be canonized as a saint, just because he happened to be killed by the bolsheviks.

Excuse me, Wikipedia is a place where facts presented, not propaganda. If you "read something somewhere" it does not necessarily proves to be true. The Great War was a disaster for all the world, and Russia lost less lives than most of its enemies and allies. 62.231.5.194 (talk) 06:51, 25 September 2008 (UTC)Max (Moscow, Russia)

Actually Russia lost more soldiers than any other country in WW1 except Germany (and the second most civillians and total lives after Turkey), as can be found on the WW1 Casualties wikipedia page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 137.120.200.129 (talk) 15:09, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

uhhh... waayyy 2 long! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.112.198.83 (talk) 20:58, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

I can tell you for one, if read this article on him and Bloody Sunday, you'd know that the czarist officials knew of the event several days before hand, and willingly decided to send the czar out of St. Petersburg on vacation without telling him of the event. He never found out about it until a few days later, in which he wasn't happy. His relatives in St. Petersburg wrote him a letter encouraging not to trust the government officials. My point is the actual czar didn't know how to run the country, and other people were controlling it, and even doing things without his permission. As for him having people stomped on his marriage day, I have no clue what you are talking about.