Talk:May Day

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This page has been cited as a source by a media organization. The citation is in: Aaron J. Brown (May 2, 2005). "Mayday, Mayday: It's May Day", The Daily Tribune.  (details)

[edit] Quasi-pagan?

May Day: Quasi-Pagan holiday, right? May poles, boinking in the fields, that sort of thing? Who knows about this?

Well, I know that in Appalachia (i have folk there) they still preserve two terms which relate to May Day. "The fool of the May" is kind of like an anti-king who might rule over a party... usually this is reserved for any loudmouth at an event who is getting out of hand, but I seem to recall this being an actual folk-traditional character in Pre-Christian Europe... Also, there was the "Queen of the May" or "May Queen" which my mom frequently uses to either mean--"isn't she just as the pretty of the pretty, pretty as the Queen of the May" or "well, doesn't she think she's the May Queen." So it has a positive and a negative. Certainly both of these instances hint at a possible Pagan connection. I would assume that it isn't altogether Neo-Pagan because my folk are otherwise conservative rural folk who don't truck with such nonsense... at least that's how they would put it. My only other assumption would be that it must carry over from some older definition... Like I said, I have heard this and that, but I haven't any concrete stuff. I'll do some research... but this is what I know off the top of my head. --trimalchio

I think he means Beltane. --Dmerrill

Well, that certainly simplifies things. :) I should have asked Sara. --User:trimalchio

Perhaps a note could be added that besides geographic locations where Beltane is celebrated, it is a Pagan holiday (which then includes such people in other countries). --Schwael 13:39, 27 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I think it's worth distinguishing between Beltane observed as a religious holiday and May Day observed as a quasi-secular excuse for merrymaking, but I really don't know.

[edit] Expansion

• Fascists claim victory after day of violence - NEO-nazi leaders claimed success yesterday after Germany's most violent May Day demonstration. - Neil Wilson - Leipzig -03may05

The above implies to me that we might want to expand regarding recent may day riots. Sam Spade 07:32, 3 May 2005 (UTC)

Just exactly what event are the Russians and Red Chinese commemorating on May 1 each year? I have yet to find any birthday or important event relating to communism/socialism that occurred on May 1. Someone once told me, though, that May 1, 1776, was the birth date of a group called the Illuminati, which was alleged to be a clandestine group devoted to one-world government. Is it so? Please enlighten

Quote from the article: "also refers to various socialist and labor movement celebrations conducted on May 1" Okrainets

[edit] NPOV

Does anyone else think that mayday is a nazi holiday? Because sam seems to think that unless we imply that, this article is NPOV. If no one else takes sam's insanely biased view, the NPOV tag should be removed.-- Revolutionary Left | Che y Marijuana 16:42, May 4, 2005 (UTC)

Please. I am submitting a RfC. Sam Spade 20:38, 4 May 2005 (UTC)

Go for it-- Revolutionary Left | Che y Marijuana 20:52, May 4, 2005 (UTC)

Question for Sam - do you have a problem with the word hijack because it is emotive, or do you feel that that the neo-nazis have a claim to May Day given the fact that the ruling Nazi party adapted May Day to their purposes? Question for Che - do you really think that "hijack" is really an appropriately neutral term?

The fundamental difference, as I see it, is whether you can consider the neo-nazis "inheritors" of the Nazi party's claim to May Day (in which case "making more use of the day", as Sam said first) might be seen as appropriate. On the other hand, if you see May Day as a socialist day, then yes, it would seem like the neo-nazis are trying to elbow their way in to the day of the left. Of course, since it's really a pagan holiday, I suppose they should really have the first claim on the day...if you want to believe that neo-pagans have the right to inherit claims of the old pagans. Might saying that the neo-nazis are "asserting a claim to the day" (or something along those lines) be a better compromise? Some wording that neither suggests nor denies that the neo-nazis have some claim to the day? Guettarda 21:18, 4 May 2005 (UTC)

I do consider may day to be a socialist day, but that's not the point. The point is that the article sam quotes itself does not imply that leftists were counter protesters, on the contrary. It suggests that leftsists were participating in regular mayday celebrations, and had to be cleared out by the police to allow for a very small nazi protest. That's when the fighting starts, implying that nazis were attempting to "hijack", or "take advantage of", or whatever you wanna say, a traditionally left wing day, and that they were still outnumbered anyways. Meaning we can't say that the nazis were primarily the ones doing the marching. It is fact that the day is traditionally left wing. So, i'd say "attempting to take advantage of" isn't pov. Implying that the nazis were "the ones doing the marching" is however.-- Revolutionary Left | Che y Marijuana 22:04, May 4, 2005 (UTC)

Che makes a whole cartload of assumptions, which I thank you very much for questioning. I make no claim as to who "owns" may day. Nazis called it "workers day", and communist types called it "blut mai". Regular folks call it "may day", and its an ancient holiday, celebrating solstice (see walpurgis nacht). This whole "who owns the day" mess is actually a very real, very violent issue here in germany, and NOT one we should be taking a stand on!!! People have been killing each other about the matter since the 20's, and in fairly large numbers (see the article). In summary, I will agree to any neutral wording, which does not include "hijack", or any expression of day ownership. That said, keep in mind:

• April 30: Anniversary of Hitler's death, associated with May Day, the next day.
• May 1: May Day/Beltaine, one of the dates Hitler proposed to set up as a holiday. Hitler wished to wipe out various religious holidays and replace them with solar-year based celebrations and dates commemorating Nazi achievements.[1]

The only German government to have sanctioned May Day was that of Adolf Hitler, who proclaimed “National Labour Day” to a million workers gathered in Berlin on May 1st 1933, even receiving a resolution of gratitude and approval from the reformist trade-union leadership, who were still at large (though not for long, since on May 2nd, 1933, their offices were raided by Nazi squads, who forced them to perform repeated knee-bends before packing them off to concentration camps).[2]

Sam Spade 22:11, 4 May 2005 (UTC)

Actually my reading of Che's comments is that he has a problem with the line: frequently leading to clashes with left-wing protesters? I didn't read that as saying that the neo-nazis were clashing with leftwingers protesting the neo-nazi marches, I read that as saying that the neo-nazi marches led to clashes with left-wingers who were out celebrating May Day with their customary "protests"; is this what you take issue with? I suspect that it would be easy to alter the wording to make it less ambiguous. I wouldn't assume up front that Sam meant that the left wingers were only out to protest the neo-nazis. Is that the problem?

I used the term "ownership" somewhat loosely...and without proper knowledge of that part of the history. I was using "ownership" as a straw man - I was assuming that it wasn't the real issue. Of course, I think I mis-read both Sam and Che. Regardless, would more neutral wording be acceptable? Remove "hijack" but also find something better to call the left-wingers, not "protestors", or re-arrange the words so that they can't be read as simply being out there to protest the neo-nazis. Guettarda 22:35, 4 May 2005 (UTC)

Actually, I have no problem with that line, it's the line that comes just before it that we're having trouble over. Sam's last edit read like this: "In recent years, this has somewhat declined, with neo-nazis and others on the right like the NPD doing the marching, frequently leading to clashes with left-wing protesters". I changed it to "In recent years, this has somewhat declined, with neo-nazis and others on the right like the NPD attempting to hijack the day, frequently leading to clashes with left-wing protesters". If you read the history, I explained that sams own article which he cited, does not support such a conclusion, that the Nazis were the ones "doing the marching". His reply was "so what? it was the NPD marching, the lefties were counter protestors. Whats w this hijack nonsense?". Which I think is absolutely rediculous.-- Revolutionary Left | Che y Marijuana 22:45, May 4, 2005 (UTC)

I also think that at hitler's time, russia was, I believe, the only country who officially recognized mayday. So to say that he was the first president isn't saying much. It was still an important day for workers' action on the left, as the section on germany shows. And today, hitler no longer exists, and it is those tiny groups who try to take mayday as a Nazi day, while the majority of action on that day is for workers' liberation. This is just fact, not POV.-- Revolutionary Left | Che y Marijuana 22:48, May 4, 2005 (UTC)

Actually, Sam's first words (as far as I can tell from the history) were: "In recent years, this has somewhat declined, while neo-nazis like the NPD try to make use of the day again with public demonstrations, which frequently lead to clashes with left-wing protesters."

• Do you agree that leftwing marches have declined in recent years? (I have no way of judging this)
• Do you agree that neo-nazis are "using the day for public protests"?
• Do you agree that these protests lead to clashes with leftwing protestors?

If so, then the remaining difference is trivial. The history is already there. So how about:

In recent years, neo-nazis like the NPD have attempted to use the day for public demonstrations; this has frequently led to clashes with left-wing groups.

(with the mention about declines in punk & autonome protests left in a separate sentance, if need be). The majority of action on that day is for workers' liberation is there in the article, it could be strengthened if you wish. By presenting the two ideas side by side you can let the reader interpret it as s/he sees fit without interjecting any editorial comments. Thoughts? (I've got a bus to catch). Guettarda 23:01, 4 May 2005 (UTC)

I think that's a perfect compromise.-- Revolutionary Left | Che y Marijuana 23:07, May 4, 2005 (UTC)

Just so you know, sam's original change was "making more use of the day", which I had only slightly modified to "trying to make use of the day".-- Revolutionary Left | Che y Marijuana 23:11, May 4, 2005 (UTC)

2 things. #1 the NPD is not officially a neo-nazi party (if it was it would be illegal), so that bit (no matter how true, and trust me I know it is) is POV. #2, attempted is both POV and IMO inaccurate, I'd go for the following:

In recent years, neo-nazis and other groups on the far right like the NPD have also used the day to schedule public demonstrations; leading to increasingly violent clashes with left-wing groups.

BTW, when this is resolved, we should nominate User:Guettarda for admin, assuming he's willing. Have a look at his http://www.politicalcompass.org/ score (on his user page), and compare that to his amiable, neutral stance here! Hoorah, Guettarda, and here's hoping you catch that bus!

Cheers, Sam Spade 23:19, 4 May 2005 (UTC)

Attempted can't be POV, because whenever you do something, you're making an attempt. To speculate whether they were successful in that attempt, is POV however. My problem is with attributing too much importance to the Neo-Nazis on this day, and yes I know they aren't all officially Neo-Nazis, but this is a talk page. The fact is that they should not be given more importance than their miniscule presence warrants.-- Revolutionary Left | Che y Marijuana 23:34, May 4, 2005 (UTC)

And please don't sweet-talk the negotiatior :P-- Revolutionary Left | Che y Marijuana 23:35, May 4, 2005 (UTC)

Should and attempted are both POV. They succeeded in marching that day, no doubt about it. Sam Spade 23:39, 4 May 2005 (UTC)

Are you saying that me using the word "should" to describe what we shouldn't do is POV? :| Ok... Sam, in general, I don't want an article that makes it sound like the Nazis have taken mayday. Because, as your own article states, they have not. Attempted is not POV, it just adds another layer of description to how much that is not accepted by the general masses within germany. They call for demonstrations, they attempt to organize them, and they are consistently disrupted. Now we don't need to mention more than the fact that they try to organize events and that this leads to clashes. I don't want it to say consistently disrupted, but I don't want it to leave the reader with the impression that they are accepted either. You are describing one day were the police came out to allow them to march, your article itself paints a picture that says the law usually doesn't allow this. The Nazis won a court battle before coming out. So to imply that this is a pattern of success isn't NPOV either. So let's leave it at attempted, because you don't know how consistant they've been in their success.-- Revolutionary Left | Che y Marijuana 00:03, May 5, 2005 (UTC)

Sure I do, I'm in germany, and I was out on walpurgis nacht. I know the political atmosphere here, and I study the politics. I'm not trying to say "their winning, and no one is brave enough to disrupt them", but saying "attempted demonstration" is ridiculous, it wasn't broken up, it was counter protested. What successful protest isn't counter protested? Sam Spade 01:21, 5 May 2005 (UTC)

So you've been to every mayday protest in every town in germany over the past 10 years and made a statistical study of the representation of Nazis at these protests? If you're going to imply a pattern of growth, which you are implying, you will need to show alot of evidence. Not a pattern of growth of Nazis in general, a pattern of growth in Nazi presence on mayday, in comparison with the presence of anti-fascist forces. Otherwise, "attempting to make use of" is the best we can work with. It does not imply "attempting to protest" as you seem to think. It doesn't imply that they don't make use of. It just doesn't attach any judgement on how successful they've been in hijacking mayday. Anyways. Maybe we're going about this the wrong way. This page lists mayday under several different meanings. Perhaps we should put what you're talking about, the Nazi day of action (which is seperate from mayday in the traditional sense) under its own section, and mention clashes with the other side under both.-- Revolutionary Left | Che y Marijuana 12:50, May 5, 2005 (UTC)

Is the current version acceptable to everyone as NPOV? Aside from Che's suggestion about adding separate sections based on different meanings (which is a structural question, not a POV question), is there anything that still needs the POV template? Guettarda 13:07, 5 May 2005 (UTC)

I am fine w removing the dispute header from the current version, but if you scroll down a bit, you'll see why I have my doubts that the matter is resolved. Sam Spade 13:29, 5 May 2005 (UTC)

Just exactly what event are the Russians and Red Chinese commemorating on May 1 each year? I have yet to find any birthday or important event relating to communism/socialism that occurred on May 1. Someone once told me, though, that May 1, 1776, was the birth date of a group called the Illuminati, which was alleged to be a clandestine group devoted to one-world government. Is it so? Please enlighten

[edit] New ideas

I saw this article listed on Requests for comment, here are my thoughts:

• All political parties organize May marches, gatherings, and festivals with political speeches, those activities are not limited to right- and left-wing extremists. They just get the most attention from the media.

• The abrupt rise of violence this year was also due to the 60th anniversary of the end of the WW2 and the anniversary of the liberation of Auschwitz.

• The NPD is considered a Neo-Nazi-party and hostile to the German constitution, and the German government tried to prohibit them already back in 2003. But the court refused because the German government had infiltrated the party with informants. They keep on trying though.

• May day is still the most important day for labor unions, but unfortunatly they don't get much media coverage.

• The Walpurgisnacht and the custom of may poles are mainly rural traditions, urban regions pretty much concentrate on the political aspect.

• And yes, most people get drunk, celebrating May day with beer and wurst. ;=) Pharlap 14:01, 5 May 2005 (UTC)

Since this article is somewhat controvertial at this moment, can you post your suggestions for change here and lets see what people think. Guettarda 14:41, 5 May 2005 (UTC)

I think Pharlap is spot-on with all his comments. I'm in a very rural area (just villages mainly), and getting drunk and eating wurst occured in every village I know of, no matter how small (I went out, and drove thru many a village, and every last one had a wurst stand and people drinking beers and such). The political thing runs across every part of the spectrum, not just extremists. Ordinary, "boring" centrists lay claim to may day too, altho they scrap about it far less ;) As far as the NPD, essentially everybody thinks their nazis, and the fact that the people who turn up for their marches or events are largely skinheads kinda reinforces that idea. But they are not officially nazis, which would be illegal here in germany, so calling them nazi in the narrative is not ok. Officially, they are far right, oppose immigration, and support youth programs. They are even glad to joke about holocaust memorials and such [3]. But officially Nazi? No. Sam Spade 15:28, 5 May 2005 (UTC)

Just exactly what event are the Russians and Red Chinese commemorating on May 1 each year? I have yet to find any birthday or important event relating to communism/socialism that occurred on May 1. Someone once told me, though, that May 1, 1776, was the birth date of a group called the Illuminati, which was alleged to be a clandestine group devoted to one-world government. Is it so? Please enlighten

[edit] progress

We have now differentiated Liepzig and berlin, and clarified what was wrong w the link (it was copied wrong, prob. my fault). The 2 links don't contridict each other anyhow, since they were talking about different cities. Sam Spade 00:49, 7 May 2005 (UTC)

The last paragraph reads okay now, but I have difficulties with this sentence:

While Germany's economic prosperity during the last decades led to a decline of the workers' movement and of the political importance of May Day, since 1987 it has become known for heavy rioting by radical leftists

IMO it implies that the only ones still participating in may day activities are far right- and far left-wing organizations because labor unions and mainstream parties somehow lost their political enthusiasm. That's not the case. There is not even one labor union or party without a may day agenda - all labor unions and all parties use may day for political campaigns and activities. Also, with an unemployment rate of 12,5% nationwide (and 20,6% in east of Germany), it's not really a time of prosperity - the reason why especially labor union campaigns evoke a lively response from the population. Pharlap 17:51, 7 May 2005 (UTC)

Please make whatever changes you feel are necessary, I'll provide suppressive fire Sam Spade 17:54, 7 May 2005 (UTC)

Well then take care not to shoot your own foot. -- 790 12:36, 8 May 2005 (UTC)

I removed the dispute header, based on a note on my talk by 790. It can be restored if someone articulates an objection, of course. Sam Spade 20:58, 12 May 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Labour day in the Netherlands

I was surprized to read in this article:

"Canada, Australia, New Zealand and the Netherlands also celebrate Labour Day on different dates; that has to do with how the holiday originated in those countries. "

I have lived all 45 years of my life in the Netherlands, but I wouldn't know which day that would be. Perhaps somebody confused Labour Day with the Dutch national holiday (koninginnedag), which is on April 30th.

May 1st is in the Netherlands called Labour Day ('Dag van de arbeid') and celebrated traditionally by socialist and communist parties and labour unions. It has never been a national event and in the 20th century its popularity among workers has faded gradually as the wages rose.

Perhaps someone could add to the article on what day the Netherlands celebrates Labour Day and "how the holiday originated" in that country. Or strike that part. Johan Lont 08:59, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

In Australia "labour day" is different in different states. In Victoria where I am it is the second Monday in March, a public holiday. It has its origins in the 8 hour struggle but since the middle 20th century the Moomba festival has been held at the same time, critics say as a way of neutralizing its Labour Day's political content. May Day is celebrated as International Labour Day by a few communists socialists and anarchists etc, the march (or, latterly, street party) is usually on the first Sunday in May as there is no public holiday. It used to be bigger but has fallen on hard times. May Day in Australia is of course at the opposite time of year to the Northern hemisphere festival and has lost its late spring/early summer character. In Melbourne it is often cold and rainy! The Spring festival in Australia is Melbourne Cup Day on the first Tuesday in November. Jeremy (talk) 02:33, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

I'm from canada and for us labour day is in september. always has been. maybe we ahould... mention this once in the article. or maybe the labour day article shouldnt link straight to may day as if they are definitivly the same thing

[edit] Snide Remarks about US Govt and Catholic Church -> NPOV?

The wording of this article left a very distinct POV in my mind with respect to those two great satans, USA and the Catholic Church. The article could state that the church created saints and/or holidays to distract from mayday without the snide tone. It could even offer evidence that the intent was destructive. Similiarly, the fact that the US has declined to join the parade could be stated with a good deal less venom.

[edit] Article is biased

I agree with other posters who say that this article violates NPOV. Take for example the assertion that "It is indeed a thoroughly international holiday - the United States is one of the few countries in the world where pressure from the local working class has not led to an official holiday."

First of all is the use of the expression "working class," which is a leftist term. Many people who work are not considered "working class" such as lawyers, doctors, engineers, scientists and other white collar workers who get up in the morning every day do earn a living doing something productive. Furthermore the statement makes the assumption that the "working class" in the United States pressures, and ought to pressure, the government into recognizing this holiday. In fact much of the middle and lower middle class in the United States is very anti-communist and signs with explicit communist revolutionary imagery such as the "PFLP" poster in this article would be considered offensive. I suggest that the text be changed to "the United States is one of the few countries in the world where it is not an official holiday."

The caption to the "May Day graffiti in Berlin" picture is very biased. It says "May Day graffiti in Berlin. The text reads, "1 May: Cars burning, cops dying", a typical exaggeration." The phrase "a typical exaggeration" is snide and suggests support for May Day and disregard for the views of its opponents. This is not neutral. Other pictures in this show neutral or generally positive depictions of May Day. It is not the place of Wikipedia or of this article to be for or against May Day or any other holiday. I suggest that the caption be changed to "May Day graffiti. The text reads, "1 May: Cars burning, cops dying.""

[[Wikimonster 00:46, 15 October 2005 (UTC)]]

"In fact much of the middle and lower middle class in the United States is very anti-communist" Citation? Didn't think so. Let us discuss bias, shall we? 70.61.22.110 13:19, 1 May 2007 (UTC)Randall

The term "leftist" is a slanderous and ambiguous rightist invention, designed to combat thought. BK. Aug31 2007 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.105.2.2 (talk) 14:40, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

I'm a bit puzzled that "working class" is a leftist term according to Wikimonster but "middle" and "lower middle" class is OK apaprently. I suppose the neutral term for the "working class" should be the "lower class" ? Or the proleteriat (which means essentially "breeding class")? 203.87.64.23 (talk) 02:15, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

[edit] May Day is Labor Day

This entry should be merged with Labor Day. They are identical. None difference whatsoever between them. US do have a "May Labor Day", it's in September (sic). In Europe, May Day is Labor Day. Kaliz 03:02, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

No it shouldn't - Labor Day is not a British term - stop trying to impose USA idioms on the rest of the world - this is an encyclopaedia, reporting what is, not what you think should be... sheridan 10:09, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

Golly gosh. When *I* was going to school, then, we got a day and a half off for "May labor day". Pfft. As stated above me, the world is NOT a uniform place--even in the USA. I grew up in Hawaii, and every May Day we'd spend half of the day singing and dancing at school, and then we'd get another day off for Labor Day. 74.226.8.12 10:22, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] May Day / May Week in Canada

I question the implied causality/association of May Day and violence, and I think there is far too much emphasis on the violence which has occurred in Germany. As it stands, this article seems to be rather generalizing and cavalier with the association of violence, demonstrations, and particular countries. May I propose that violence be a subsection of this article?

The vast majority of May Day celebrations, I would suspect, are nonviolent, but that seems to merit little attention in what we've got here. As I work on the Edmonton May Week website, I would be able to attest to the truth of this situation here in Canada. Here's the mission statement of our group:

"The Edmonton May Week Labour Arts Festival brings together the labour movement, workers and artists to celebrate the achievements of people’s struggles for social and economic justice through visual arts, music, film, poetry and theatre."

"The goal of the festival is to educate and inspire Edmontonians to work for positive change in their workplaces and communities by acknowledging our struggles and celebrating our gains as working people."

Here's Toronto's (MayWorks Festival):

"Mayworks Festival of Working People and the Arts is a multi-disciplinary arts festival that celebrates working class culture. Founded in 1986 by the Labour Arts Media Committee of the Toronto and York Region Labour Council, Mayworks is Canada's largest and oldest labour arts festival. The Festival was built on the premise that workers and artists share a common struggle for decent wages, healthy working conditions and a living culture. Mayworks' goal is to promote the interests of cultural workers and trade unionists, and to bring working-class culture from the margins of cultural activity onto centre stage."

Whoa, "decent wages, healthy working conditions and a living culture" -- sounds like heavy, smash-the-state stuff to me!

This part of the opening section in the article also seems sensationalist:

Nevertheless, May Day has long been a focal point for demonstrations by various socialist, communist, and anarchist groups. In the 20th century, the holiday received the official endorsement of the Soviet Union; celebrations in communist countries during the Cold War era often consisted of large military parades and shows of common people in support of the government.

Ooo, "demonstrations!" So, in effect, we're to understand that demonstrations are typically violent and extremist, even though official unions demonstrate -- oh wait, they only have 'parades.' This to me, reflects the mass media bias towards political demonstrations, and this absurd polarity of nondemonstrating=nonviolent=official=nonpolitical and demonstration=political=violent=radical association need to be rethought: we need to widen of the term demonstration and say 'how' a given demonstration of its kind took place.

I hope it's clear that I don't think we should disavow the fact that violence has occurred at May Week celebrations / demonstrations, or that my contributions here are any less part of the struggle over the meaning of May Day. I'm just saying that the main, present-day story is being lost here. It is also lost if we just say May Day is identical to Sept 1 Labour Day. For this reason I like the idea of a section on 'struggles over the meaning of May Day' as I think that would be more objective and put a lot of May Day actions in context.

I am from Canada and I have never witnessed May Day celebrations nor have I ever heard of May Day. We have a labour day in September which to my knowledge has never marked more than the return to school. We like May because it is a good month but no day in May is the May day. I don't think that it is possible to say that these two days are the same because.... they are differant days. Which one am I not supposed to wear white after?--Matt D 21:24, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

May Day imagery

There's been some discussion about the imagery in this article also. I think it's fine if the cars burning/cops dying graffiti pics appears in a section on violence and May Day, but this and the Palestinian poster are an utterly poor representation of how May Day has been graphically represented around the world. Most of the Mayday imagery I'm familiar with is much more positive, but then, May Day activity in Canada also focusses much more on workers as cultural creators. I have access to an archive of some of this material and could propose it for inclusion in the article.

--Oxygen Smith posted 8pm, Jan 31, 2006 mountain time

[edit] Mayday in UK - re: statue of Winston Churchill

I think the use of "given a green mohican as a protest" is confusing as most people with whom I discuss such matters, and most other references call it a Mohawk (if what the writer is referring to as the strip of hair down the middle of the scalp that is grown out to some length and resembles the horse-hair crest on the helmets worn by the Greek Hoplite soldiers) which is the more common name (cf. Mohawk hairstyle) ChuckHarding53 00:44, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

In the UK, where this happened and was reported, that style of hair arrangement is called a "mohican". Bazza 14:51, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

I agree with User:Bazza 7 - if someone calls it a mohawk I assume they're from the USA.

I noticed the same thing, so I linked the word "mohican" to Mohawk hairstyle for those (like me) who are only familiar with the term "mohawk". Mike Dillon 14:43, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] VANDALISM

people are vandalizing this page. editted by 1 May 2006 64.72.84.67

This is unfortunate, I suspect that this is from illogical fear and hatred about Mexicans. John wesley 19:23, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

Opps! by mistake! I mistook this page for the May 1st, Day w/o a Mexician immigrant page. John wesley 19:25, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] original basis of May Day

Surely May Day is much older than this modern socialist stuff in the article. Mayday's been celebrated for hundreds of years, there are stories and legends. My gran always used to get up early on Mayday morning to wash her face in the dew! I don't know enough about this but someone must have more information. I feel the current page sidelines the real origins of the day.--Brideshead 20:21, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] May day

Fascinating history on May Day. Where does the May Day pole come from?

I guess it's a pagan tradition... Probably a symbol of fertility. Why don't you look it up under may pole -- 790 21:35, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] May Day v. Labor Day in the US

This article contradicts with the US Labor Day article. According to the Labor Day article, a September Labor Day predates the Haymarket Riot by several years (it was due to early labor union organizing). In addition, according to the Labor Day article, making a September Labor Day a holiday predates the first Red Scare by about 40 years, though a September Labor Day was choosen in 1887 to avoid a connection with the Haymarket Riot. --Amcalabrese 21:00, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Merge with Labo(u)r Day?

There have been several proposals to merge "May Day" with Labor Day or Labour Day, which could be argued for parts of this article but not others. This highlights the fact that this article is about two completely separate things — the traditional European (and elsewhere) celebration of the arrival of spring; and the day dedicated to labourers and workers. This has led to this article being less than clear — an interweavibg of two unrelated ideas which happen to share a name in some parts of the world. The confusion is highlighted by the regular merge proposals from people in areas where May Day as a spring celebration is unknown or less prominent. I would vote not to merge this with Labo(u)r Day, but instead move those relevant parts of this article to Labo(u)r Day. The remainging article, concerning the spring celebration, could start with a note to this effect. For real clarity, there might be a May 1 Holidays disambiguation page listing May Day, Labor Day, Labour Day, … Bazza 07:37, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

I think that the above suggestions are absolutely appropriate and relevant for this article. The celebration of May Day in the UK and elsewhere is traditionaly unrelated to labour considerations. The intermixing of the two seperate ideas is confusing and misleading. --Brideshead 10:50, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

I agree, there should be one article covering Labor/Labour Days that are not on May 1 as well as labor-related aspects of May 1, and a separate article about other, traditional aspects of May Day. I suggest that the two articles should be called "May Day and Labor Day" and "May Day (traditional)", with plain "May Day" becoming a disambiguation page.

The present situation is particularly silly since the US's Labor Day is pretty much copied in Canada, but "Labour Day" the topic redirects to May Day, which is not associated with labor at all in Canada.

207.176.159.90 01:07, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Sounds good. Matthew 22:43, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

I agree that Mayday should be split into Mayday (traditional) and Mayday (political). Labour/Labor day is a different article again as the date often differs from country to country arising from local historical circumstances. While Labour/Labor day and Mayday (political) are related, the differences are substantial to warrant seperate articles. --Takver 14:23, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Yes. Mayday shold be split into Mayday (trad.) and Mayday (pol.)

[edit] Euromayday

I have returned this to the co-options section, as it breaks the world-wide solidarity of the working class in favour of a [[eurocentrism|eurocentric] viewpoint. Harrypotter 22:01, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

i corrected the euromayday section, since there were wrong facts in it and on the other hand a violation against the NPOV.

--Ferdl 00:03, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Germany section

Someone has been repeatedly removing the Germany section without explanation. (Whitewashing by some kind of public relations firm working for the Berlin tourism council?) I'm restoring it. Please do not remove it again without explaining why you are doing so. Kwertii 02:07, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Anonymous intro editing

There are several inaccuracies that someone keeps anonymously installing into the intro. Please stop changing these, or justify them here.

• May Day is not best known as "International Worker's Day", it is best known as "May Day", at least in English, and this is the English Wikipedia. This is why the article is called "May Day" and not "International Worker's Day".
• Identification of May Day as "a primarily Radical Left holiday meant for large-scale socialist, communist, and anarchist street demonstrations around the world": this is patently false. Most May Day demonstrations around the world are organized by labor unions and the like, who are certainly left-leaning but hardly "radical left", certainly not Communists or anarchists, and sometimes not even socialists. Also, the day is not "meant for" anything; this is a POV statement.
• Use of ostentatious caps for "Radical Left": "radical left" is not a proper noun, so it should not be capitalized per normal English usage.
• Redundancy: Please re-read what you edit before you save it. Very often you are inserting duplicate information which requires extensive copyediting.

Kwertii 21:37, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Accuracy Dispute/cleanup

I've added the tag, i think that this article is one of the most confusing and messy pieces of work on this site. It is appalling, with the many different versions of socialist campaigns, international workers day, riots in 19th centrury America, pagan rituals, it's unmanageable.

May day is a traditional holiday with a long history unrelated to socialism and conversly the socialist events are important and unrelated to the mayday celebrations. The article needs to be split and reorganised. Discuss? --Brideshead 19:23, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

Agreed, as I hinted a while ago above Bazza 11:56, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

As the lack of comments would suggest that there is general agreemement for a split. I'm going to attempt to split the article into two. i suggest naming one May Day (traditional) and the other May Day (political). Any comments. If there are no substantial objections I'll start this in a few days. --Brideshead 16:40, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

I agree, this article is very disorganized and repetitious. 71.209.16.227 01:43, 5 May 2007 (UTC)slfisher

[edit] Kernow->Cornwall

Were this the Cornish language version of Wikipedia, the Kernow heading would be fine; but it isn't so I've changed it to Cornwall. (And otherwise, I'd have to change the Germany heading to Deutschland.) Kernow redirects to the Cornwall article anyway, which refers to alternative names and other interesting facts about the county. Bazza 16:30, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] politics is only a part of mayday

I came here to add some info about a particular fertility tradition that was popular on the south east coast of britain up until the 1960s but found that the page insists mayday stems from chicago and is a great opportunity for a riot. hmmm. as for the contributors above not having heard of mayday as a fertility celebration, they really should try and get out a bit more. what on earth do you imagine maypoles represent? telephone workers! So I'll hold off adding my little bit of info, until I can gather some real meat to put the trade unions adoption of this day in some sort of proportion that corresponds to the 110 years or so that workers rights have eclipsed the millenia of fertility celebrations (and no it is not a neopagan reinvention, it has been observed continually).

In the meantime here are some fun facts to chew over... interesting dates in the later sections. DavidP 03:11, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

May Day is Beltane, which means 'day of fire'. It is an ancient Pagan festival. Bel was the Celtic God of the sun.

May Day marks the seasonal transition from Winter to Summer and celebrated the first spring planting.

Putting a Maypole up involved taking a growing tree from the wood and bringing it to the village to mark the coming of Summer. Single men and women would dance around the Maypole holding on to ribbons until they became entwined with their (hoped for) new loves.

Social hierarchy was set aside on May Day to involve everyone from the highest to the lowest.

May Day is a celebration of fertility. In the old days whole villages would go to the woods and all sorts of temporary sexual liaisons would take place.

Robin Goodfellow, also known as the Green Man was the Lord of Misrule on May Day. He and his supporters would make jokes and poke fun at the local authorities.

Parliament (England) banned May Day festivities in 1644.

Unlike Easter, Whitsun, or Christmas, May Day is the one festival of the year with no significant church service.

In previous centuries working people would take the day off to celebrate, often without the support of their employer.

William Davidson, a black trade unionist and a revolutionary, was executed on May Day 1820. Davidson was born in the then pirate capital, Kingston, Jamaica and put a skull and crossbones on a black flag to say:“Let us die like men and not be sold like slaves.” He was executed for being part of a conspiracy to kill the entire cabinet, which was hoped to give the spark to a revolution in Britain.

May Day is recognized throughout the world as International Workers' Day, or Labour Day. In 1884 US and Canadian trade unions declared that after May 1st 1886, 8 hours would constitute a legal days work.

May 1st was declared a holiday by the International Working Men's Association (First International) in Paris in 1889. This was to commemorate the Haymarket Martyrs of 1886: 8 anarchists were wrongly accused of throwing a bomb at police and 4 were executed.

The USA and Canada do not recognize May Day. The US government attempted to erase the its history by declaring that May 1st was 'Law Day' instead. They pronounced that Labour Day was to be on the first Monday of September, a date of no significance.

[edit] Canada: order of events make no sense

I was happy to find a section on Canada & May Day. Unfortunatley, the order of events make no sense.

When socialist delegates in Paris in 1889 appointed May 1 as the official International Labour Day, the Government of Canada — fearing that allowing the proclamation to take hold in Canada might strengthen the socialist movement — quickly moved in 1887 to support the position of the Knights of Labor and their September date for Labour Day.

Does anyone have information that would help clarify? I will ask 71.246.72.214 to clarify, as it is this person who made the entry @ 2006-05-09T03:47:16

jlam 00:25, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Chronology

May Day the spring festival, being far older and far longer lasting than the workers' May Day, should be first. Goldfritha 21:23, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Germany section

I restored the section on Germany to the version prior to May 1, 2006 (minus the image that has been deleted in the mean time). On that date, an IP deleted the section without giving any comment. [4]. It was not until May 21 that user:Kwertii did what he called "copyedit intro; restore deleted Germany section". Actually this was no copy-edit at all, as this version of the section was new from scratch, and of inferior quality. The new version was lacking any and all of the historical information. Instead, it made several unsourced and dubious claims, like that the decline of May Day riots could doubtlessly be attributed to new police tactics. Furthermore, obvious nonsense was introduced, like setting the pagan solstice customs falling on that day to a particular location on the Brocken mountain. -- 790 09:49, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Pre Christian May Day is a solar festival, celebrated on May fifth

halfway between equinox and summer solstice 68.60.68.203 19:43, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Haymarket Riot: Not!

For what it's worth, the statement (in the article), "In America, May Day is commonly celebrated as a commemoration of the Haymarket Riot of 1886 in Chicago, Illinois, ...," is not accurate. In 50+ years, I have never encountered a celebration (or even an observance), public or private, of the Haymarket Riot. PlaysInPeoria 06:53, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Date of May Day in UK

It seems like May 7th 2007 is a public holiday in United Kingdom and confusingly May 1st is not. Is it a May Day or what? Probably an obvious thing for an Englishman, but not for a foreigner. --Kubanczyk 09:36, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Bank holidays are the first Monday on or after the date in question. There's nothing special about the seventh of May, it's just that the first fell on a Tuesday this year. Wibbble 21:48, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

OK thanks. I feel insufficient information in the article. Please confirm whether it would be a proper statement to add to "May Day in UK": May Day (i.e. May 1st) is a working day. However there is a Bank Holiday on the first monday in May. That's how I understand it now - this basic information is not obvious for those outside of UK :)) --Kubanczyk 08:33, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] May 1st is a major holiday and very important in China.

Fact regarding that should be mentioned on this page as 1.3 billion people celebrate it and get 7-day holiday (recently became shorter).

Parade is not a keyword associated with May 1st in China anymore. That association has been gone for a long, long, long, long time. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.107.240.1 (talk) 15:29, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Parade in China on May Day is history

The practice of May Day parade in China ended more than 40 years ago, and there was no CCTV at that time. Since then only a few parades were held in the National's day. I tagged this part of the article for verification. --Kingdomer 22:30, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Actually, they don't have the May Day parade anymore. There are usually TV specials on CCTV celebrating the hard work the people, the military, athletes, etc. has put forth. The past few years, these specials always compare China and the US. This could be seen as a propaganda since these comparisons are often in favour of China but the US can't beat China in anything now. I lived in China for most of my childhood and 5-1 usually involves spring clean ups. Maybe thats just in my family. Regarding the "travel abroad", people are beginning to go sightseeing around China due to the rise of the middle class. The richer folks can go to Disneyland in HK while those with less money but can still afford to go often go to some place closer to home. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cars o holic (talk • contribs) 05:43, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Information moved to International Workers' Day

I've since moved a lot of information here relating to International Workers' Day to its own page as it contained quite a lot information that was obviously going to be expanded upon in time. This page also needs a lot of work regarding the historical May Day. :bloodofox: (talk) 20:27, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

I agree that the majority of the labor-related material could be put in a seperate article since May Day, in this respect, has a very deep and well-documented history. But why move the section to the bottom of the page? May Day is most commonly known as a labor holiday and should be near the top of the article. I've gone ahead and moved it. Uwmad (talk) 02:29, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] 3 articles

See Talk:Labour Day#Merge with "International Workers Day"? for comments on how I suggest the 3 overlapping article are developed Nil Einne (talk) 15:16, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Article as written lacks major information

In the section about international workers day, the part where it says "May Day can refer to various labour celebrations conducted on May 1 that commemorate the fight for the eight hour day. May Day in this regard is called International Workers' Day, or Labour Day. The choice of May 1st was a commemoration by the Second International for the people involved in the 1886 Haymarket affair in Chicago, Illinois. As the culmination of three days of labor unrest in the United States, the Haymarket incident was a source of outrage and admiration from people around the globe."

Though correctly mentioning the fight for the eight hour day, a vague reference to the haymarket affair leaves an incomplete picture of why there is international outrage. It should state clearly that as a result of the US government firing on workers during the general strike for the eight hour day, a dozen workers and workers leaders were killed and executed. This would only take one sentence and would make this article more useful, not requiring someone to read the whole other article to understand the gist of the main origin of the labor movement holiday. (24.7.75.93 (talk) 21:04, 1 May 2008 (UTC))

I think you're right. The page is currently semi-protected (no IP edits) due to the high volume of vandalism today. I'll add something, let me know if it sounds okay. Uwmad (talk) 21:35, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

Also feel free to edit it tomorrow once the protection is removed. Uwmad (talk) 23:54, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

Looks much better. Good job, its still relatively concise and fitting within a paragraph. (24.7.78.170 (talk) 08:58, 2 May 2008 (UTC))

One thing... maybe it is more accurate to describe the trial as a political trial or kangaroo trial rather than a show trial, as instead of a trial involving fake evidence, it was a trial with no evidence where the judge declared that the defendents were on trial not for anything they had done but for their anarchist political beliefs. (24.7.78.170 (talk) 09:51, 2 May 2008 (UTC))

I added some material. The Haymarket section is getting rather large now... But it does give a good summary, I think. Without bloating the paragraph too much (there is International Workers' Day), it might be good to add some information of May Day rallies and events. Uwmad (talk) 15:52, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Handling POV emphasis because of political differences in May 1 holidays and observances

Since workers day activity and the traditional day celebrations are two distinct holidays (nations sometimes choose one or the other) or ways to take the day (some groups celebrate one, the other, both, or a mix), POV issues (mainly with a political backdrop) occur in the article. As it is now, it's biased toward the traditional holiday, while it may have been biased toward the laboral one till IWD was moved to its own article. To be neutral a disambiguation would be optimal, and it already exists. But May Day itself should be the disambiguation, headed by the holiday articles. Mayday should just redirect to it, as the signal is not as prominent as the holidays in an encyclopedic context. The traditional holiday article could be titled something like May Day (traditional) to eliminate ambiguity and settle disputes. Notes relating the two holidays or ways to celebrate May 1 can of course appear in either article, as those mixing the "red" and "green" celebration traditions mentioned someplace. Thus I'm marking this as non-neutral, as I don't see the solution (to POV issues) as a matter of enlarging or shrinking sections or kicking them up and down on the page. Who is like God? (talk) 21:14, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

[edit] May Day New Haven

Please add a link of our site: www.maydaynewhaven.org/

We put on a May Day festival on the New Haven Green every year.

Thanks, Jeff Spalter 203-776-2170

63.22.95.0 (talk) 22:27, 15 September 2008 (UTC)