Talk:Manga

	Manga is a former featured article candidate. Please view the links under Article milestones below to see why the nomination failed. For older candidates, please check the archive.
Article milestones Date Process Result December 9, 2007 Good article nominee Not listed January 7, 2008 Peer review Reviewed February 1, 2008 Featured article candidate Not promoted February 7, 2008 Good article nominee Not listed Current Status: Former featured article candidate

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[edit] What is the Intention Here?

User:Rich Farmbrough just created a series of links between various dates mentioned in the manga article and a list of events on those dates. Thanks, Rich, or thanks to your bot, but what is the intention and purpose of these links?

I just posted the following to Rich Farmbrough's talk page, and recopy it here. I don't object precisely to creating these links; it's just that they provide no useful information about manga whatever. Here's what I wrote:

You just made some date fix changes on the manga page (or your bot did), which leads to a question I've never seen answered to my satisfaction. The issue is so strange that it might warrant being included in your "Things that stayed too long" page. Thus -- and it's only one example of many:

Reference #63 in the Manga article arises from the following text:

The influence of manga on international cartooning has grown considerably in the last two decades.^[1]

1. ^ Pink, Daniel H. 2007. "Japan, Ink: Inside the Manga Industrial Complex." Wired Magazine, Issue 15.11, October 22. "Japanese comics have gripped the global imagination," first page. Accessed 2007-12-19.

So we click on the October 22 link. Among a large number of other things, we get:

▪ 202 BC - Hannibal Barca, leader of the Carthaginians, is defeated by the Roman legions under Scipio Africanus in the Battle of Zama.

▪ 362 - The temple of Apollo at Daphne, outside of Antioch, is destroyed in a mysterious fire.

▪ 794 - Emperor Kanmu relocates Japanese capital to Heiankyo (now Kyoto).

I admit that I did not read the entire list, but only gazed and skimmed. I didn't find anything about manga or about Daniel Pink or about the Manga Industrial Complex. So, my question, why link this particular example of "October 22" to the list of Hannibal, mysterious fires, and Emperor Kanmu?

Unfortunately, Wikipedia has its fill of people who don't like it when their ways are questioned. I hope that you're not one of them. I question the value and intention of linking the manga article to a list of really quite varied but irrelevant events that happened on October 22. And I can assure you that October 22 has no special relevance to manga.

I don't have the time to tilt at windmills and remove all these date links. But they have no meaning to, and convey no information about, the topic of the article.

So why is the date linked to an irrelevant list?

Timothy Perper (talk) 16:35, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

I hope that Rich Farmbrough can answer the question.

Timothy Perper (talk) 17:00, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

I answered:

When a date includes a day and month, user formatting preferences ("my preferences" "Date and time") will be invoked by linking it, e.g. [[10 April]] can show as either April 10 or 10 April, and hence should almost always be linked. Any associated year should also be linked viz: 10 April 1962 because the software can display this as 1962-04-10 for those who have their date preferences set to ISO. In due course a feature may be added to MediaWiki allow a different syntax from linking to do this. Rich Farmbrough, 16:40 14 August 2008 (GMT).

To expand: There is setting in [ http://en.wikipedia.org/description/Special:Preferences user preferences] that allows you to choose your preferred date format. This only works if the date is enclosed in [[ ]] . Unfortunately, for historical reasons, this is the same syntax as linking. Nonetheless the consensus at Manual of Style is to decorate the dates as outlined above to allow user preferences to work. A bug has been filed at bugzilla to request a different approach to date formatting , but has not (yet) been resolved. Rich Farmbrough, 18:33 14 August 2008 (GMT).

Thanks, Rich... in other words, it's an obscure glitch somewhere in cyberspace and its environs. I call them kobolds. OK, we just ignore it. Timothy Perper (talk) 20:22, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Reverted change about manga in Korean bookstores

User:Yechan.K.B. just added two versions of the following sentence:

Almost all if not all manga are sold throughout bookstores in Korea in both Korean or Japanese.

This was followed by another change, giving

Almost all if not all manga are sold throughout bookstores in Korea in both Korean and Japanese.

I reverted both (well-intentioned) changes as unsourced and unreferenced as well as unclear. Moreover, "almost all" is weasel-wording. I think the intention may have been to say "Korean bookstores sell manga in both Korean and Japanese.<ref>Cite Korean source for statement.</ref>" but if so then the sentence doesn't belong in this section but in Section 4 about international markets or, if manhwa was intended, then in Section 5.

Thank you for your change, but please do not add unsourced and unreferenced comments to this article.

Timothy Perper (talk) 22:44, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

[edit] More about references

Someone just changed the references. The summary says "12.226.24.113 (Talk) (put footnotes back in by going back to perper 17aug08)" I don't know what this is about or why it was changed, but I suggest that we leave it strictly alone until we can all get a good look at the references. I suspect that someone will simply and automatically revert the change, but I'd like to ask that we leave it for a few days at least. I want to look more carefully at what was done. Thanks. Timothy Perper (talk) 13:13, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

I looked over some of the changes, not in great detail, but some of them. It looks like some vandal got in and deleted huge numbers of references and other text, and those changes were reverted by 12.226.24.113 (see preceding comment). If that's the case -- and please, someone, check again! -- then we should leave it the way it is now, that is, after the vandalism was reverted by 12.226.24.113. But someone else should also check. Timothy Perper (talk) 13:33, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

I took it back to your version of 17 aug 08. How the footnotes wound up in columns is a mystery to me. I guess the article is on nobody's watch list - certainly not mine as I'm just passing through. I tried to get someone's attention at http://en.wikipedia.org/description/Wikipedia:Administrator_intervention_against_vandalism - I guess they pasted their template, " User has been incorrectly or insufficiently warned. Re-report once the user has been warned sufficiently." on my pesky complaint, then trashed it. YWIA; so long for now. - 12.226.24.113 (talk) 23:27, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

You'd be surprised by how many watchlists this article is on. Mine is just one, Anyway, thanks, Timothy Perper (talk) 00:52, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Removed Overlinking

I just removed the wikilink from "Manga, literally translated, means "whimsical pictures". If you click on pictures you get a five-paragraph, one page entry that is flagged for having no references (and it doesn't) -- in brief, useless. This is merely overlinking for the sake of overlinking, so I took it out. Actually, the manga entry is loaded with overlinkings, but I'm not going to try to find them all. Some other time, when I have less to do with other projects. That's known on Wiki as eventualism (here).Timothy Perper (talk) 04:08, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Reverted Year Change

An anonymous editor just changed the year of first publication of Ninja High School from 1993 to 1987. I reverted the change since the source cited by the article gives the date 1993. If this individual has a source for 1987, it should be posted here so we can see if it's reliable or not. Since the inidvidual gave no source for 1987, I went back to the date given in the source cited by the article. Timothy Perper (talk) 14:22, 29 August 2008 (UTC)