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[edit] I Vow To Thee My CountryJust checking, the veracity of the statement 'At international rugby union matches, England has used "I vow to thee, my country".' I just changed this from the RFU 'tends to' use "I vow to thee, my country", which it certainly doesn't, but can anyone confirm it has actually ever been used in a National Anthem capacity? Though I'm a fairly young and non-English supporter I've never heard it sung at a Rugby Union match and even if it has been there is a definite difference between a traditional supporters song and a national anthem (You may as well say Sweet Chariot was the anthem). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.208.184.78 (talk) 18:08, 16 August 2008 (UTC) [edit] Words to the songI think you should include the words to the full British National Athem in this article. [edit] Bilingual Canadian Often Sung Version????I know it says this version is often sung, but I've never heard it before!!! Is it because it is only often sung in certain places, or have I been living under a rock for the past years?--72.137.205.70 18:43, 14 March 2007 (UTC)Johanna I think the discussion of the melody; as regards Liechtenstein, Germany and Norway, ought to be removed. The article as stands regards the National Anthem of Great Britain, the song is the same, the melody is therefore immaterial. If the national anthem of the above countries uses or used the same melody it should be mentioned in the relevant pages. [edit] ???what i think happened havnlt checked it orignally there wer4 verses here. then i added the two missing oens which which went before that scottish one. - fonzy Does Northern Ireland have an alternate anthem? -- Zoe
I think they played "Londonderry Air/Danny Boy" at the Commonwealth Games last year, but I'd never heard it done before, and it may just have been the NI Commonwealth Games Committee's idea. Usually one side of the community's happy with GStQ and the other side would just ignore it or boo. -- Arwel I don't think there is an alternative anthem. I'm surprised, come to think of it, that it was never included in the Good Friday Agreement. After all, the renamed the police-force and incredibly created a new logo everyone could agree with, redesigned the symbolism for court rooms, created a new logo for the assembly, etc. I'm surprised they never touched the anthem, or found a mutually agreed one. I'll ask Steven King, David Trimble's special advisor, the next time I see him whether there is one in the pipeline or whether it never was touched. STÓD/ÉÍRE 03:41 Mar 27, 2003 (UTC) Anyone got anything to say about the tune (which I believe is called "America")? Deb 19:55 Mar 27, 2003 (UTC) I *think* the tune has the same name as the song - when the US was looking round for songs of its own they lifted the tune, used their own words, and created the "America" of which you speak. But I could well be wrong :) UPDATE: Bit of searching round, apparently the tune dates from the mid 1700s, and has been used a national tune quite commonly! Verloren I believe the Swiss national anthem had the same tune until recently, and Liechtenstein's still does. Germany's did before 1918 as well. But, at any rate, this is a year old discussion. What I'm wondering about is the discussion of the last verse. This verse begs God to allow Marshal Wade to defeat the Scottish Jacobite armies. Marshal Wade was fighting the Scottish Jacobite armies in 1745, and was defeated by them and replaced by the Duke of Cumberland (apparently). But yet the article claims that this verse was added later than the song's origins in 1745. That doesn't make any sense - why would they add a verse about a defeated general beaten by an already defeated threat? It seems fairly clear that this verse must have been in the song originally, and to have quickly become obsolete. Anyone know about this? john k 03:40, 24 Jun 2004 (UTC) The reason not to include the full lyrics is because Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a repository of songs, poems, documents, novels or anything else. See: Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not. There is a sister wiki project, Wikisource, that has been designed precisely for the purpose of hosting primary source material like this. Putting this stuff on Wikipedia not only contradicts its purpose it also creates unnecessary duplication between the two sister projects. I dont think any one is going to be put out by having to click a single extra link to see the full text. Iota 18:07, 28 Jun 2004 (UTC) The reason for Wikisource's existance is as a repository for lengthy documents that don't belong in full in this project. A hundred or so words as in the lyrics to a national anthem do not need to be solely placed in Wikisource. In the process of removing the lyrics you also removed the link to Marshal George Wade. Thus making the link from that article to this one confusing. The stanza also contains the line "Rebellious Scots to crush" which is of some encyclopaedic interest don't you think? Indeed the article says This support caused the later attachment of a verse, shown last in the list below, which has an anti-Scottish sentiment, and is rarely (if ever) sung nowadays. You thus made this line confusing as the verse was no longer shown. Mintguy (T) 18:23, 28 Jun 2004 (UTC) Mintguy, I agree with you that the whole lyric should be listed here. But did you see my comment above? I'm dubious about the claim that the line about Wade crushing rebellious Scots could possibly be a later addition. Wade was defeated by the rebellious Scots very shortly after the very first performance of the song. It only makes sense that the verse about Wade was an original verse, which very quickly ceased to be sung because Wade himself was a failure. 19:00, 28 Jun 2004 (UTC)
[edit] Canadian verse footnote callThere's a footnote call with no corresponding footnote on the last line of the English Canadian verse. Anyone knows what the note should be? Also, it's numbered 3, but there seems to be no 2. [User:Valmi|Valmi[User_talk:Valmi| ✒]] 05:13, 27 Oct 2004 (UTC) [edit] ProtocolIs it worth including a line about protocol in this. I read a while back that there was a muck-up when the queen visited america a few years back and they had it all arranged for her procession to parade in to the national anthem. But of course, she stops to receive the national anthem, which they played til the end, she carries on, they start again, etc. Quite the chaos because the British knew their protocol, and the American protocol was different. I can't find the date of the incident for the life of me though, yet...Graldensblud 01:19, 16 February 2007 (UTC) [edit] AmbigI was a little surprised when the article implied that Deutschland Über Alles was based on the tune of God Save the Queen. I had to go listen to both to verify.
[edit] Handel and sexual relations with "George I's wife"This is not in Mme de Créquy or her 19c 'editor'; and if true, needs to be sourced, and put under Handel and, but not here, where it isn't germane. At any rate, I suspect silliness or vandalism. Bill 13:32, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC) [edit] Verse 2 - vandalism?Verse 2 (as currently shown) has to be a joke - the words just don't sound right! I'm not quite sure enough of this to delete it though. Can anyone else help? Thoughtcriminal 13:30, 17 Apr 2005 (UTC) [edit] Line missing?Verse 2 is correct, which is one reason why it isn't heard very often. A choir director of mine had some fun when he was asked to put together a choir to sing at the university's 25th anniversary celebrations. Asked to include the National Anthem, he suggested that we should sing more than one verse, which was readily agreed to by the relevent authorities who knew less about it than he did - to their slight embarrassment when we actually sang the first three. There seems to be a line missing from the 'alternative' verse 6 that starts "George is magnanimous". Every copy that I can find online seems to have been taken from this Wikipedia entry, other than three lines that are quoted in a John Buchan novel found at Project Gutenburg. What is the source of this verse, is there even any confirmation that it was really used, and if it's accurate what is the missing line?
[edit] Composer of the tune?I read this article and was very surprised to see that the composer is identified as Henry Carey. I recollected that the Oxford Companion to Music has a long analysis of the origin of the tune in which it completely dismisses Carey, under a heading of "An American Misattribution of the Tune". I checked and see that Scholes gives a convincing demolition of the Carey claim. He proposes that the attribution should be 'Traditional' or, possibly 'Traditional; earliest known version by John Bull,'. Is there any reliable source to support Carey? Bluewave 11:02, 20 September 2005 (UTC) Text was added that the tune is of Methodist/Christian origin. This is unsupported by any reference and at odds with the Scholes analysis of the origins. I have deleted this and suggest it should only be reinstated if supported by some evidence. Bluewave 09:26, 11 October 2005 (UTC) [edit] The royal anthem in Norway?Is this the royal anthem of Norway? Thought it was "Ja, vi elsker dette landet" (Yes, we love this country)?
[edit] Jerusalem"There has been some debate about replacing God Save the Queen with Jerusalem, another patriotic song popular in England." This line is in the opening few paragraphs in the article suggesting this is quite a prominent debate, which to all intents and purposes, it is not. More suggestively however, it implies that Jerusalem would replace God Save The Queen as the national anthem of the United Kingdom, which wouldn't happen since Jerusalem references England alone. While there may be debate to use Jerusalem at sporting events etc. for English teams, it is not a national (UK) debate and I think this line is poorly placed and misleading. --Ayrshire--77 14:57, 11 February 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Ycchh!Who added that awful synthesized voice file at the bottom? It sounds... well, it has synthesized voices, shouldn't that be enough? We should get rid of it.Agent_Koopa 02:55, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
[edit] God Save the KingWill this be changed to redirect to God Save the King when/if the Prince of Wales becomes king? Morhange 22:45, 2 May 2006 (UTC) One would assume it will be moved to God Save the King, and other similar articles will do the same (Queen's Counsel, for instance). But seeing as the Queen is still alive, it stays here. john k 23:10, 2 May 2006 (UTC) [edit] Send her what?What does "send her victorious" really mean? I reckon it's along the lines of "make her victorious" or "send her victory" but could someone please substantiate this assumption? Thanks, Maikel 20:53, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
[edit] New Zealanders sing God Save the Queen in English but not Maori?Is it true that when singing God Save the Queen in New Zealand, only English is used? I ask this as as the official information has no Maori lyrics there.--Jusjih 12:52, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
[edit] History of God save the Queen, a French originThe origin of God save the King/Queen is the song "Grand Dieu sauve le Roi", which words were written by Duchess de Brinon. The melody was written by Lully, to celebrate the Louis XIV's cure in 1686 (a dent problem). It was translated to latin "Domine, salvum fac regem" and then became the Royal anthem for France until 1792. When the catholic king of England Jack II of England (Jack VII of Scotland) came to Saint-Germain-en-Laye, after his deposition by his protestant son-in-law William of Orange, he discovered its music. Later, his partisans will arrive in England, singing this anthem in his honnor. It is after Culloden's battle that permitted to the Stuarts to come back to power that the Hanovre family, victorious, will choose this anthem as a royal anthem for Great Britain.—Preceding unsigned comment added by Fredjoyb (talk • contribs) 20:30, 26 June 2006
[edit] Is it really a national anthemn ?I just read on [[1]] that GOD SAVE THE QUEEN is sung in the United Kingdom as a matter of tradition. It has never been proclaimed the national anthem by an Act of Parliament or a Royal Proclamation. Is that correct (in which case the introduction to this article should be changed?)
Just to underline that: Britain does not have a written constitution. Most of our constitutional istitutions evolved without Act of Parliament or a Royal Proclamation. There is no statute or constitutional document which says we should have a Prime Minister or a Cabinet, for example. Constitutional status derives primarily from customary practice and national consensus. So while the statement that GSTQ has never been "officially" proclaimed is technically correct, it would be quite misleading to leave the reader with the impression that the National Anthem is therefore in any sense "unofficial". I would therefore like to rephrase this section slightly. --Doric Loon (talk) 11:16, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
[edit] King?At the present moment, as Queen Elizabeth II is in reign, I think that it is appropriate that every instance to "King/Queen" should be removed and replaced simply with "Queen". A note at the end explaining that the song is sung with "King" and "his" and "he" when the reigning monarch is male would be sufficient. The main reason I think this should be done is because the article reads rather clumsily in its present state. It may have originally been written as "God Save The King" but the song is so old now that the details of its creation are now auxiliary to the details of it's use in popular culture. Similarly, once Charles/William accedes to the throne the article should be changed to the lyrics appropriate for a male monarch and an explanatory note explaining its change of lyrics when a female reigns would be appropriate. Thoughts?
And sign your comments in future! Joevsimp 15:25, 23 January 2007 (UTC) [edit] "Not/Nor in/on this land alone" verse - date?We've got two stories here: this verse is claimed to be one of the original 6 ("Although in the original lyrics, verses 4–6 ...") but later included under " In 1836, William Edward Hickson wrote four alternative verses: ...". Does anyone know the facts? [edit] Yet another versionI think I saw another version of the National Anthem in a Ulster Free Presbyterian hymnbook with "Frustrate their knavish tricks" replaced by "Frustrate their popish tricks". Would this be worth mentioning anywhere? -- the GREAT Gavini 14:01, 1 October 2006 (UTC) | I think it would be worth putting in there somewhere, as it is another perception and historically it would have been somethign that would have been sung alot in Ulster being the Protestant part of Ireland, now called Northern Ireland. Tony 10/10/06 8:41 BST
[edit] BoldIs there any need for the song title to be in bold throughout? That isn't a standard practice. Biruitorul 01:11, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Same as "America"In the text, it notes U.S. song "My Country 'tis of thee" is different words to the same tune - which is true. But the it states that "America" (Oh! beautiful for spacious skies/ for amber waves of grain) is also sung to the same verse - which is clearly NOT true. I am a novice at wikipedia, but took the liberty of editing this out. (now where is the damn tilda ?)Lorenzo10 01:32, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
Well, besides the Samuel Francis Smith-written "America", there are other songs that are sung to the tune of "God Save the Queen", like The Prayer of the Russians. Heck, even there were several old American songs of the mid-to-late 18th century that are (or were) also sung to the tune of "God Save the Queen", like: - "God Save George Washington" - "God Save America" (not to be confused with the Irving Berlin-composed God Bless America) - "God Save the Thirteen States" Fascinating, isn't it? Don-Don (talk) 00:48, 2 January 2008 (UTC) [edit] Verse about the ScotsI have made several edits today including some changes to what the article says about the verse regarding the crushing of the Scots. This verse appears to have been very short-lived (it wasn't in the published 1745 version and had become an almost-forgotten curiosity by 1836) and I have found a couple of references to support that. I noticed that Alistair McConnachie issued a challenge in 1999 in the letters pages of The Herald for anybody to show him printed evidence in a programme from an official function anywhere in the world, in the last 250 years, which proved that this "rebellious Scots" verse had ever been sung. He says "I'm still waiting, and I don't expect to be surprised anytime soon." Bluewave 16:40, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
Alistair McConnachie is a nobody and certainly doesnt deserve a mention on wikipedia -CM —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.168.119.109 (talk) 10:47, 25 April 2008 (UTC) [edit] 1545I came across this while looking for something else:
Might be worth a footnote in this article. --Philip Baird Shearer 15:11, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Films etcI have grouped the references to films etc under a new heading of cultural references. I'm not really sure about these: listing every time the song appears in a film would not add to the article! I am not sure what is notable about these particular examples. (And the one from west Side Story is probably not even this song really.) Bluewave 12:26, 5 April 2007 (UTC) [edit] I've got a feeling........that the final half of the third verse of William Hixton's alternate version of "God Save the Queen" used a little bit of a reference to the Francis Scott Key poem The Defense of Fort McHenry, which was later reworked as a song that's also the official national anthem of the United States of America: The Star-Spangled Banner, which borrowed its tune from the British drinking song To Anacreon in Heaven. Of course, the first verse of "God Save the Queen" ("God save our gracious Queen....) is, in my honest opinion, more easier to sing than any verse of any national anthem, especially "The Star-Spangled Banner". Can't wait to hear a little less of "SSB" and lots more of "GSTQ" when I'm heading to the United Kingdom to spend two years at a music school in Leeds. Don-Don (talk) 10:22, 23 January 2008 (UTC) [edit] X Japan coverI am pretty sure this is a cover of the Sex Pistols' song and not a cover of the British national anthem. If so, I don't think it qualifies for a place in the current article...and I'll delete it. If I am mistaken, please correct! Bluewave 16:21, 4 June 2007 (UTC) [edit] grammar: singular / plural confusion ?1st para - "The melody is also used... and were used " ?? Oniscoid 12:17, 15 June 2007 (UTC) [edit] Lyrics - should they be here?Someone has added a template proposing the move of the lyrics to Wikisource. I understand the logic for this but am not sure that it would improve the article. The article includes quite a bit of discussion about the lyrics, the different versions of the song and the attempts by various lyricists to improve the song, and I think it is helpful to have the lyrics present on the page to support that discussion. Also, other articles on similar topics (eg The Star-Spangled Banner) reproduce the lyrics in the article, so it is not out of line with other articles. Any views? Bluewave 08:18, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
[edit] What about the cultural references section?I suggest the cultural references section should be deleted.
Anyone care to make a case for keeping these? Bluewave 17:39, 4 July 2007 (UTC) [edit] Hixton versionThe Hixton version reports to provide his version which was published in 1836. If so, why does it refer to a female monarch? Obviously, when Hixton was writing, the monarch was a King, William IV. If this is Hixton's version, we shouldn't be changing all the genders. john k 19:14, 11 July 2007 (UTC) [edit] Royal Anthem - AustraliaThe Article on Australia refuses to have the Royal Anthem on its infobox, which is inconsistant with most other articles about Commonwealth Realms. Instead the consensus on the talk page opts for a small mention as a footnote. If anyone else finds this inadequate then I draw your attention to Talk:Australia#Royal_Anthem_2 Thank you. Biofoundationsoflanguage 09:36, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Louis XIV's anal fistulaA very amusing anecdote indeed, but the link doesn't really explain the whole fistula business unless you have access to the full article text. Does note 4 actually cover this fact or not? Peter Isotalo 15:04, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Origins / Other Anthems on the same tuneThe article doesn't seem to mention that the God Save The Queen tune was the Swiss national anthem 'til the crowning of Queen Elizabeth II. The tune also most certainly originates in the medieval ages (cf. the very similar genevan anthem "ce qu'ê l'aînô. [edit] ReorganizationI undertook a reorganization of the article to put things in a coherent order, remove duplicate information, and generally to make it adhere to WP:STYLE. The result was as follows: [2]. This does not remove any relevant or non-repeated information, but merely reorganizes it. User:TharkunColl has, as usual, brutishly reverted without valid reasoning, though eventually requested I discuss the change. Discussion is now open. --G2bambino 23:15, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
What's the point of arguing with you? Please answer my previous question. TharkunColl 23:34, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
Could you please summarise the main changes that you want to make to improve the article and why they are needed. Perhaps that will help focus the discussion. Thanks. Bluewave 06:26, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
The recent edits have, I think, tried to give GStQ a more "world-view emphasis". I suggest that this rather misses the point that the queen in the title is Queen Elizabeth II. Hence, it seems odd that the opening sentence doesn't mention this or the British origins of the song (although it does mention a "republican context" - which seems bizarre for GStQ). Yes, there have been adaptations of the song, with different words, like "My Country, Tis of Thee" (which has its own article), but that is not the main point of notability of the song. Unfortunately I don't have time over the next couple of weeks to do a thorough review of the article, but hope that others may do so. Bluewave —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bluewave (talk • contribs) 09:53, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
[edit] God Save the King x2I have been redirected here for discussion over the issue of the official name of the song. From evidence gathered including official UK Governmnet records [[3]] and from prior knowledge, The official name for the Anthem of the United Kingdom and therefore extended to the Commonwealth of Nations as the "Royal Anthem" is "God save the King" and not "God save the Queen" as stated on Wikipedia. Although the words King/Queen are replaced depending on the gender of the Monarch of the Commonwealth within the song, the actual name for the song remains "God save the King". Although a minor issue, it can make a big difference, if asked in Great Britain what the Nations flag is called, most people will reply "The Union Jack" although the official name is "The Union Flag" although minor I would like a full investigation into the official name of the Anthem.
[edit] Use in New ZealandSurely New Zealand should not have it listed as a National Anthem, as New Zealand adopted "God Defend New Zealand" as the National Anthem. Yes it is used for royal occasions, but it should only be listed as royal, not as national. Drkshadowmaster Contributions Talk Page 01:20, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
God Save the Queen is never ever ever sung or used in New Zealand, I have never heard it at an ANZAC service either - as far as I am aware it hasn't had national anthem status for over 50 years. Our current government unfortunately has a large number of 2nd gen poms in it one of which may have listed incorrect information on a website listing God Save the Queen. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.107.221.135 (talk) 10:25, 16 August 2008 (UTC) .
I do think one key issue is whether or not it is sung - what is your definition of a national anthem? Type "definition national anthem" into Wikipedia if you're not sure. As I stated I don't hold the current Ministry of Culture and Heritage website in particularly high regard as a reference material as I would question the authors authority to decide what New Zealand's national anthem is. Unless you can reference GSTQ in a legal statute of some type common usage is the key criteria. We are both in agreeance that GSTQ isn't used in NZ after all. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.107.221.135 (talk) 09:19, 18 August 2008 (UTC) [edit] PosterIs that recruiting poster really WW1? I thought air raids were only an issue in WW2. --Doric Loon (talk) 07:08, 20 April 2008 (UTC) [edit] Welsh anthem not officialThe section Other United Kingdom anthems states that the welsh anthem, Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau, is official. The article on it says that it is traditional but has no official status; this is what (as a brit) I have understood for some time. If the situation has changed, Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau should be edited as such. If not, as I expect is the case, "official" in this article's description should be changed to "traditional". In the absence of evidence to the contrary, I propose to make that change. SamBC(talk) 14:06, 31 May 2008 (UTC) [edit] Marshal Wade verse againThis old chestnut comes up from time to time, usually with the statement that it is the "6th verse". I found the 1837 reference to this verse, mentioned in the article, but by that time it was clearly a historical curiosity. However, there are several internet references to the verse, often referring to it as the 6th verse (very odd because this would place it after verses that were written much later). Presumably there must have been some sort of attempt to revive the verse, either in the late 19th or the 20th century, and presumably by someone who wanted to whip up either some anti-Scots or anti-English sentiments. Can anyone offer a published source for the verse (dating from later than 1800!). If there was some attempt to revive it, this should probably be mentioned in the article, but I can't find any evidence, other than unsourced websites. Bluewave (talk) 21:14, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Full english versionCould someone please update the page, as i know that there are infact five verses to the english national anthem, however less well know, they exist. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.31.215.32 (talk) 14:51, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
[edit] 2008 Olympiad closing ceremonyJust curious. I watched the show and heard that the British choir sang the 1st verse of the standard version and the last verse of the Hixton's text. Is there any particular reasons for that? Thank you... --Tikar aurum (talk) 17:52, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
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