Talk:Funeral

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The article Begrafenisrituelen was nominated for deletion. The debate was closed on 16 November 2008 with a consensus to merge the content into Funeral. If the merger is not completed promptly, Begrafenisrituelen might be re-nominated for deletion.

To discuss the merger, please use this talk page.

Contents

[edit] Firefighters

The part about funerals for firefighters seems pretty non-sequitur. There are lots of specific traditions for deceased people of various professions; to list a single one seems odd. Either delete, or make a new section that includes military funerals, police, youth, et cetera. Tuckerma 19:47, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Traditional funerals

The heading "traditional funerals" should be renamed to something like "Christian funerals." It is not relevant to Jewish funerals (and some of the stuff on Jewish mourning practices is somewhat inaccurate).

[edit] North-American based

This article is very North-American based, for example 'wakes' are only briefly referred to in the context of 'Irish descendants' whereas wakes are a feature of Irish funerals in general so perhaps the section on Irish-descendants needs to be linked to a larger section on Irish funerals? --whoever wrote that an Irish wake is a party for 3 day needs their head examined. delete delete delete for 3 days.

[edit] Decedent

The word "decedent" is misspelled throughout the article. It is spelled "decedant" in many places here. Radishes 23:37, 3 August 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for that. This has been fixed. Graham 07:18, 4 August 2005 (UTC)

Should it not be "the deceased" rather than "the decedent" anyways? Tuckerma 19:47, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Funeral garlands

The session Funeral garlands style's is completely inadequate for Wikipedia. It should be written in a more neutral, objective style.

[edit] Refusal to accept a request for no flowers

I have never heard of a newspaper refusing to accept a death notice that asks for no flowers. Is this common, as suggested in the article? I expect that the sentence should be deleted (or at the very least, change "most newspapers" to "some newspapers"), but I don't have any experience in this area, so I'd like to seek some clarification before editing. - Cafemusique 19:33 20 May 2003 (UTC)

Jessica Mitford's The American Way of Death quotes a newspaperman who said, "We couldn't publish a notice like that. Why, the florists would be right on our necks!" In some states, I understand that the issue has been dealt with by legislation. Locally, obituaries asking specifically that flowers be omitted are still never seen, so I gather that the practice is not entirely obsolete. -- IHCOYC 13:40 21 May 2003 (UTC)
They're very common here in Canada, actually. Looking at the last 20 obits in the Herald, 12 say "no flowers, donations instead to..." and 4 say "in lieu of flowers, please make contributions to...". The other four say "no funeral service will be held". --Charlene 12:05, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

-In South Wales (and i assume most of the UK?) there is no say-so from the newspapers about what is included in the obituary notice, what is written is down to the family of the deceased, guided by the experience of the funeral director. However, our local newspaper will not allow thanks to be given in the obituary, but when i asked them why, they didn't know.(!)Kim3000 15:31, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Moved

Moved;

The deceased person is usually either cremated or deposited in a tomb, often a hole in the earth, called a grave. Graves are usually grouped together in a plot of land called a "cemetery" or a "graveyard" and are often arranged by a funeral home or undertaker.

As I'm not sure this actually fits with 'funeral' so much as 'what happens to a dead body'. perhaps a subtle distinction, but funeral should be more about the ceremony & customs I feel- the above text perhpsa could be worked in further down the page? quercus robur 11:26 23 May 2003 (UTC)

I expanded this a bit and gave it its own section. It probably fits here better than I can imagine it fitting into anywhere else; it could, of course, be split up between tomb, cremation, and so forth, but there probably should be a list of all of them. "What happens to a dead body" seems an odd subject heading, and besides, we already have that article at decomposition. -- IHCOYC 15:32 23 May 2003 (UTC)

[edit] Piecemeal

As a general observation, the selection of regions covered is very piecemeal. More specifically, the North American section needs a reference to Mexico, a glaring omission. I believe the ceremonies are different there from the US, but I don't know to what extent. I can't make sense of the section on an Irish Wake; if I could, I'm pretty sure it would belong under Visitation, not Luncheon. There's also some inconsistent usage of "memorial service". Last thing, under Japan, the sentence on "Oriental" cultures (aside from its pejorative connotations) seems to present a very specific detail that is presumably (but not overtly) related to the previous paragraph without any further detail. Free 00:27, 2005 August 12 (UTC).

[edit] African Funerals

I don't know where someone ripped-off this information, but it's definitely not in-line with Wiki's neutral point-of-view policy. Furthermore, the punctuation and capitalization conventions are outdated. I'm going to edit this, although I have nothing to contribute to the article itself. --JH. Jan 8, 2005

[edit] European Funerals

there needs to be something on continental services, I've heard that the Dutch don't do embalmings and I imagine there is probably a good deal of variation in europe. -K 26/2/05

Every insight counts. Please allow individual to brief through and we will determine if it's relevant.  :)

Europe is also seeing an increase in secular, non religious funeral ceremonies, but there is virtually no mention of that here. A funeral needn't be religious at all. (User:arthurchappell

[edit] Japanese Funeral

[edit] Japan or China or Asia or what?

It talkts about Japanese whcvvcbvnbg nngjymjhjjjite clothes, and then about Chinese white enveloppe presents?

I know quite a few people back in my village don't make the difference between chinese, japanese and thai, but this is an Encyclopedia!

Problem is, I can't correct the thing myself because I don't know whether it was refering to a Japanese habit, or a general asian thing. (Cefalópodo 12:02, 20 September 2005 (UTC))

regarding these concerns, i've done some editing on this section. "oriental" was changed to the more specific "east" and "southeast asian", since "oriental" can also refer to other parts of asia. more work is needed however.

[edit] Viewing

Just wanted to let you know someone quite knowledgable in this field added that article... and that it can be merged and/or expanded. - RoyBoy 800 05:23, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

Viewing, Visitation, and Wake are not the same thing. A viewing is just that - viewing the body. It can take place in the hospital, home, funeral parlor, religious edifice, public building, and/or graveside. A visitation need not involve the body at all. It involves visiting the bereaved – usually within a week or so of the death. Visitation and viewing are often merged. A wake is a celebration of the deceased's life and generally involves a party. Rklawton 15:34, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] External links

I removed the following:

because the link to AMS lists many medical schools which accept anatomical gifts, whereas Georgetown is only one


is just plain weird. I could be wrong about that one; maybe it really is relevant to funeral, but it doesn't look it to me.

is spam. Twice, in fact, two links in one sentence


  • Easybyte - free easy piano arrangements of music suitable for funerals (Thaxted, Purcell, Chopin)


is nice, but the vast majority of the music is not funeral music. Just zis  Guy, you know? [T]/[C] AfD? 11:23, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] The Rohan Kriwaczek hoax

There never was any such thing as the The Guild of Funerary Violinists

Ogg 10:44, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Rosicrucian external link

I originally deleted this link because it appeared to be an article mainly talking about the beliefs (rather than the funeral rites) of a minor Christian tradition. To include links to all similarly popular customs would overwhelm the article, and actual the information about funeral rites is minimal and buried far down the page. Hence my reasoning of it being unencyclopedic in this context. I do not think the link should be on the article, but since another editor disagrees I thought I should bring this to the talk page to find out what other editors think. --Siobhan Hansa 03:41, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for your fine comment. I strongly agree with the deletion of external links to commercial, forum or blog sites (as it is already defined at WP:EL). However, informative links (as the mentioned one) describe specific funeral rites or methods which are often associated to specific religious-spiritual contexts ("beliefs", traditions) of each specific culture (and these traditions exist from ancient times to current-days). In this sense, I think that if links exist, and are added, to specific funeral rites (or to beliefs which require and describe specific funeral methods) it should be welcome as it gives opportunity for firsthand acquaintance with them (see the example of Spirituality article with links according to each specific tradition). For me it is a study field of special interest, but I did not find till now many sites online dwelling into this subject. However, whatever the decision of editors, keep or remove, it will be accepted and the current link (introduced by myself) kept or removed accordingly. Thank you for your attention. --Viriathus 20:48, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Vandalism

The page was replaced with the following vandalism:

== funerals are way sad. so dont make fun of them. please dont. seriously. ==

[edit] Silly comments/requests

I removed a paragraph stating that it's very rude to have your phone turned on during a funeral - which seems rather obvious for an encyclopedia article - what next? an exhortation not to sing showtunes as the coffin is lowered?!. And for someone to request a citation! - Who is going to confirm it? Better to delete than be daft with citation requests. Stevingtonian 11:14, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps someone has a book by Miss Manners available where she addresses funeral etiquette. If it is inserted back in, she would likely be considered a reliable source ... but I want to see what, if anything, she has to say first — including showtunes. [[Briguy52748 (talk) 19:01, 15 April 2008 (UTC)]]

[edit] Text added to article

This text was added to the article, presumably referring to Jewish funeral customs:

Consult Roth, Cecil. Encyclopedia Judaica. Keter House, 1972. See entries on Funerals & Cemeteries & Death Customs.

Graham87 02:06, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Night Funerals?

Have there been any night funerals in some cases? I know most funerals are in the daytime, but I'm just curious as to if they do have night funerals.

[edit] Use of "we" in Ancient funeral rites section

I was reading the section and noticed that it is written as "Wefind" and "Weread." I just want to check to see if there's any reason for this before I change it. --Romulus 03:20, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

No, there's no particular reason for that. Use of "we" is usually unencyclopedic unless it is part of a quote. Graham87 11:07, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
I'm going to change it in the 'Ancient funeral rites intro', then --Romulus 01:03, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Suggestion for Improvement

Instead of listing funerals from a number of places and then saying "Main article..." can we place a small description of each funeral there? Saves having to jump from page to page to compare minor and major differences. Thanks Naysie (my tildes key is broken)

I'm very concerned about this entry. Full disclosure: I'm the executive director of a nonprofit consumer advocacy charity, founded in 1963, dedicated to protecting people from funeral fraud, and from overspending in funerals. The organization I work for, Funeral Consumers Alliance [www.funerals.org] is a federation of nonprofit societies that lobbied for the passage of the Federal Trade Commission's "Funeral Rule," the only national regulations giving the bereaved the right to accurate price information, and the right to choose only what they want and can afford [1].

The heading, "Traditional Funerals," is very misleading. As others have pointed out, it's U.S.-centric. It would not even be accurate to relabel it "Christian Funerals," since the practice of embalming and making-up the body for full public display has no roots in Christianity. It is, in fact, a creation of the late 19th-century commercial American mortuary industry. It also fails to acknowledge the fact that what the U.S. calls a "traditional" funeral is, in fact, a very recent commercially created "tradition" (Mitford, 1963. The American Way of Death. Simon & Schuster, New York. PP. 222 - 240).

Much of this entry appears to have been written from the point of view of those who sell funerals. The article does not have nearly enough from the consumers of funerals, or from the watchdog groups that try to protect the public from undue sales pressure. Much of what this article cites as fact is hotly contested by consumer advocates. There is much more to this story that needs to be told.

Joshuaslocum 02:23, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

Given your conflict of interest, the best place to begin addressing these problems would be right here on the talk page. You can post here specific suggestions and links to neutral sources. Neutral editors can then review them and, if appropriate, add them to the article. Don't hesitate to ask for help. Cheers - Rklawton 04:08, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Black tie only?

White tie is prefered in a funeral, at least in parts of Europe, if the person was very close to the deceased. Why doesn't the article mention anything about that? --The monkeyhate 15:35, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Non Religous Funerals

As the number of non-religious people has grown to a massive number recently, does anyone know if there are funeral services conducted in a secular manner without any religion, how they work etc? (Simon.uk.21 00:00, 9 September 2007 (UTC))

I'd be fine with a mention of that in the article, but Wikipedia does not allow direct copy-and-pastes from websites - they are usually copyright violations, and in the case of the BBC they definitely are. While doing a quick search I found the Wikipedia article Humanist officiant which seems to be relevant. Graham87 07:52, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
To Simon.uk.21's question, I recently attended a friend's funeral, which was a humanist service. No mention of God, although the funeral did take part in a C of E church because it was the only local venue large enough to accommodate the vast quantity of mourners. It was without a doubt the most beautiful funeral I had ever attended, more info from the British Humanist Association here. I will add something to the Wikipedia page regarding this. Tris2000 (talk) 10:19, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Lede

I've fixed up the lede by adding correct historical information and reliable cites. Bearian (talk) 17:03, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Assumptions

"Of course, most family members of a deceased person would regard any wishes the deceased had made known as carrying considerable moral authority." Why is there general assumptions in this article?


Pinothyj (talk) 03:54, 17 October 2008 (UTC)…

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