El directorio enciclopédico desde la Wikipedia.
[edit] Create a WikiProject?Nate1481 suggested (above) creating a WikiProject to help co-ordinate the process of turning this article into a series. Interesting point --- I never considered creating a WikiProject for this. This may be an excellent idea --- I've never been involved in a WikiProject, so I don't know how they tend to function. How broad in scope do typical WikiProjects tend to be? I know there's a Wikiproject for "Education" as a whole, and although the topic of Dyslexia is complex, it is considerably more limited. :-) In terms of scope, would it make sense to create a WikiProject for the more general topic "Reading"? This would cover typical reading acquisition (which is closely related but enough different to stand separately, and warrants plenty of sub-articles expanding *it*). Thus, the Project would cover the process of acquiring reading skills, how it works in typical learners as well as what can go wrong or obstruct the process entirely. I'm thinking that co-ordinating the larger topic would be a good idea, especially since so much of the research for reading acquisition is also relevant to dyslexia, and vice versa. Dyslexia and Reading Acquisition certainly both warrant a series of articles separate from the other, but I'm guessing a WikiProject can be used to co-ordinate more than one "series" of articles. Thoughts? smoran 11:58, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Survey on ordering of content:I want the "Definitions" of dyslexia to come after "history" and before "Research" because the definitions come first historically, whereas the "research" and "theories" represent ongoing inquiry, and the definitions are what currently govern legal and educational issues (i.e., whether the kid will get a diagnosis and help at school; whether an adult will get accommodations under the disabilities law). Also, "definitions" tell us "what dyslexia is".... which I think is more significant to understanding than "competing theories of what causes it." Also, in the interest of maintaining credibility and an objective point of view I think that the general flow should be from the general to the specific. Here is my proposed structure, based on the current content of the article.
Feedback wanted. Armarshall 02:12, 10 June 2007 (UTC) this is not a campaign this is to provide objective information the objective information is scientific Research how schools, goverments etc interpret this scientific research is subjective. parents and lobby groups can use the objective scientific research to change or influence the goernments or agencies subjective definition. It can not work the other way around having public opinion or agencies dictate to science. If a parent finds their local governments definition not in line with science and research then they will have to lobby and campaign to get the best for their kid and not juyst accept what their local agency tells them. So they should see the whole picture first to seeif the are getting trhe best deal for their kid. and on wiki a vote is not the way to resolve issues it is by discussion and debate. and declaring any personal interests.
WRONG AGAIN THESE ARE NOT HYPOTHESES THESE ARE SCEINTIC THEORIES. YOU HASVE LOST THE PLOT AGAIN THESE ARE SCIENTIFICALLY PROVED THEORIES REGARDING DYSLEXIA. WHAT YOIU ARE MISSING IS THAT THERE IS NO ONE THING THAT CAUSES DYSLEXIA, AND THAT ALL OF THESE THEORIEW ARE TRUE AND RECOGNISED THEWORIES OF DYSLEXIA THEYT HAVE PASSED THER HYPOTHISIS STAGE SCIENTIFICALLY. SO THEORIES MUST BE RE INSTATED 80.43.130.147 14:29, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
80.43.130.147 14:41, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
Response to proposal for organization of article: Arm, Terrific proposal. I hope this helps us get moving in a positive direction. A big part of what I like about your proposal is that it follows the "general to specific" model of presenting information, which is consistent with the Wiki principles of what makes a good encyclopedia article. It will also help us move smoothly from a single article presentation to an article series/summary style presentation. I'd like to make a few suggestions. I think the easiest way to do so is to revise your outline and highlight the areas of difference. Constructive feedback on my feedback is, of course, welcome. :-)
Best, smoran 21:03, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
DDAT is not a theory of dyslexia but one entepenuers attempt to market one remedial proram that works for only 5-10% of dyslexics and the original research that this program is based on originates from was done in the USA. well done the directors of that journal. publishers somtimes want o make moiney too. You have to understand the difference between peer reviewed research and special interest research. Peer reviewed is carried using University research personell and facilites and crossing national boundaries all of the research carried out is reviewed by your research peers and then and only then is published, such as paper i have used to cite the Theories of dyslexia, and research done to develop Special Interest research is carried out mainly by companies who have a product to sell such as DDAT or Dore as it is now known. This type of research is isdone to improve the product, and may not include all the down side negative issues of the research as this would not helpthe product marketing. similar issuies wre found in the early published research regarding the Fast Forword Program. However in the USA youhave respected research agencies and to name one American Speech-Language-Hearing Association (ASHA) which works to a similar peer review system. So would you call their output that they describe as a theory of an auditory issue as a hypothesis Hypothesis implies not proved, but these are proven hypothesis and that is why they are called theories. You really do need to spens a great deal of time reading the great many reseach papers before you pretend to understand the issues involved. weare aware that much research done in the USA has to provide an end product for ther sponsors but this isnot the casew for peer reviewed research in the UK, Europe and other leading research nations. so we all need to be able to identify and distinguish between peer reviewed research papers and the research done to advance a product or idea that is not based on the scientific peer reviewed rersearch from all international sources. So before this can go any further all potential editors need to have a very good understanding of the work of all the international research programs not just ther research programs of their own country, and noit to dimiss the accepted and peer reviewed research of another contry jyust be cause it does not fit the research or opinions that may exist in their own contry, an that is happening here. toi be a wiki you have to demonstrate an international understanding of the wide ranging issues that influnce a specific topic. And for some thinking outside of their national borders and considering issuesand thinking of others is a problem in itself. best wishes 80.43.130.147 15:08, 11 June 2007 (UTC) Also, smoran made some comments that I want to respond to, under the "Legal Issues & Educational Support" suggested topic - I don't understand why these are grouped together?' Public support (not sure what this is about) -- the overlap between legal and educational support is simply that some countries have specific laws specifying what educational support or services will be provided to dyslexic students (such as IDEA in the US), sometimes with specific agencies set up to monitor the services (such as LEA in the UK). "Public support" comes in where that may influence the laws or school system, such as what happened this past month in New Zealand, where there was a public campaign for dyslexia awareness mounted via charitable organizations, in order to persuade the minister of education to recognize dyslexia and provide school support. Would "Societal Issues" perhaps be a better title? or "Political-Social Issues'? Armarshall 08:40, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
best wishes 80.43.130.147 14:15, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
The start has been changed as so:
That is followed by the sub-headings "The Phonological Theory", "The Rapid Auditory Processing Theory", "The Visual Theory", etc, can I go ahead and change each subheading, from "theory" to "hypothesis"? --Orbidsku 11:35, 11 June 2007 (UTC) Hi Orbidsku you are completely failing to understand waht dyslexia is about. There is no one unifying theory of dyslexia. Dyslexia is like a big elephant, and each theory only explains the part of the elephant that each research is able to view. So all of the Theories are correct as they describe one part of the dyslexia jigsaw. Only the Magnocellular Theory tries to unify the theories which preceded it ti priviude a better picture of the dyslexia elephant. All of the Theories are valid because they are seeing the same problem byrt fromn a different research discipline and background. No one theory is better than the others as they all describe one of the many underlying causes of dyslexia. If you want to have one theory of dyslexia then you should start your mission of international research diplomacy now, and hope for a the necessary scientific break throughs to prive us with a full understanding of the brain. There are no easy quick fix theories or remedies, dyslexia is complex and requires a deeper understanding that you have displayed so far. best wishes dolfrog 15:25, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
Nate1481 that is a current objective, as has been discussed recently here on the talk page. --Orbidsku 13:11, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
Armarshall exellent points made at 13:18, 11 June 2007, all of which are important. The "neurological research" should be covered indepth elsewhere and separate from the hypotheses(theories!). This is going to be a very long and probably thankless task. Maybe concentration should be on one or two sections for the moment, and then as Nate suggested above "...taking all the subsection with them and leaving only the main heading with an intro & a link to the article..." once the section sorted out, and has been completed to a standard that everyone is happy with. We should probably start with the Research section and hypotheses (theories)? Opinions? --Orbidsku 14:17, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
Regarding breaking the article by subsection: Nate's suggestion is a good one. Actually, there are Wiki guidelines that apply when turning a single article into a series of related articles. I think it would be helpful if everyone involved in this "breakup" effort would take a look at these. There are a number of potentially relevant Wiki articles, but here are the main ones that I find particularly informative:
Best, Rosmoran 16:17, 11 June 2007 (UTC) [edit] Theories/hypotheses (which ever...)This needs to be taken into account in the theories section of the article. As it is the main source for the other information there we cannot ignore the conclusion of the case study, it goes as follows; Conclusion
--Orbidsku 16:10, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
Arm Stop displaying your ignorance that is a research paper which yoiu want to dimiss because it does not ageee with you book. you have little regard for those who have different ideas regarding dyslexia issues especially if they disagree with your personal beleifs you are insultring all who live outside of the USA and and want only to force your limited views on everyone else. you are not an authority on dyslexia , only someone who has written abok on the topic , an that makes you one of thousands not an aurthority onb dyslexia and not from any wiki stand point Dolfrog Hi Orbidsku you are right and the conclusions should be dated ARM seems not to like discussion and debate as she rushes this complex work to represent her own book regarding dyslexia. I personally have other commitments and can not get tto this discussion every day, and yet this individual just carries on withot making time for others to digest all the input to this talk especially those who are dyslexic like me. this editiung of tjis article should be done over a period of months ansd not in hours to please a very pushy autrhor trying to promotetheir own theories and book regarding dyslexia. best wishes dolfrog
Btw the above is not an argument to include the paper and that point of view(the paper comes too, given the tests done), its an argument against the reasons that have been put forward not to include it. It may well be a flawed paper(not yet determined), but the reasons given here seem to be biased, non-sequitur and appear to be partially emotion based, for what ever reason and are not looking at the paper, but the idea of the paper(and beyond). The sooner this whole article is split up the better, I think it should be left as is for now, and once it is split into the correct separate articles, then the editing should begin at a larger scale. Leave opinions aside for now and maybe start heading toward spliting the article. --Orbidsku 13:38, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
Yes, Subheadings etc. should be sorted out, but the specific content (in the subheadings) which is of dispute maybe should be sorted after (at least where is creates clashes and slows the development of the article). So a concensus on what subheadings are to be included should be decided first. A WikiProject sounds like a good idea, I hope this (soon series of) article(s) qualifies. Good luck, [edit] Interest in creating WikiProject?Hi, all. I'm following up on a suggestion that Nate1481 made a couple of weeks ago, to create a WikiProject. He made the suggestion in context of a discussion regarding breaking the overall dyslexia article up into a series, the thinking being that a WikiProject organization could help us to coordinate among ourselves the work currently being done, plans for what we'd like to see develop, areas where we have built consensus and where we have not, lists of to-do's, etc. WikiProjects, like Wiki articles, do not have a specific owner. Anyone can contribute, although it's possible to join a list of project contributors/editors for easier and more direct communication with other members. I've done some research into how WikiProjects work, and there's a fair amount of overhead that goes along with it. Many WikiProject contributors suggest that a good way to start out is to "affiliate" with a pre-existing WikiProject. By doing so, the new project can make use of existing structures and significantly reduce project-management overhead. If it turns out that the new project grows significantly, the contributors can, by consensus, decide to break away from the larger project and be completely separate. There are a couple of existing WikiProjects under which dyslexia could be categorized. I think the best match is "neuroscience," which includes the following major areas of coverage: * Neurobiology * Basic Neuroscience * Neural development * Neurochemistry * Psychopharmacology * Neuroanatomy * Systems neuroscience * Computational neuroscience * Neuropsychology * Neuroimaging * Cognitive neuroscience * Neurolinguistics * Neurology * Psychiatry * Philosophy of mind * Neural engineering * Neuroethics * Social Neuroscience The Neurology topic includes a subtopic called Behavioral Neurology, which lists what it calls "the dyslexias". Here's its overall description: "Behavioral neurology is a subspecialty of neurology that studies the neurological basis of behavior, memory, and cognition, the impact of neurological damage and disease upon these functions, and the treatment thereof. Two fields associated with behavioral neurology are neuropsychiatry and neuropsychology. Syndromes and diseases commonly studied by behavioral neurology include but are not limited to: ......" The other possibility is the Education WikiProject, but I don't think it represents the diversity of our related topics nearly as well. I'd like some feedback on whether you think the Neuroscience/Neurology category is where "dyslexia" is best placed. Thanks, Rosmoran 20:38, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
While it appears that progress is being made, can I further suggest that the job of this entry be given to three organisations representing Dyslexia across the world (definately not just US or other English speaking countries). This may then curtail the arguing, which appears to have become personal. Links can then be posted to websites for parents, discussion groups etc. A note could also be made that information may change due to recent knowledge. What do people think? --user Louie220.238.182.49
Keep us updated!
[edit] Update on creating WikiProjectHi, I've been working with someone on the WikiProject Council, and the current status is basically that we need to have more Wikipedians express interest in working with us before we'll be able to get an actual project of our own, even a Child Project. So, if there are other folks lurking or participating only sometimes, it would help us if you would go to Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Proposals and sign up for the Dyslexia and related topics project. Best, Rosmoran 17:19, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
Rosmoran 17:29, 21 June 2007 (UTC)
There is a problem with using most of the above, because this would imply that dyslexia is a condition in its own neurplogical condition in its own right, which it is not. There are too many types of underlying issues that would require a direct link to say at least 7 or 8 of these potential parents or partners mot just one. This also suggests that by favouring one of these options that the we are failing to endourse the contributions to be made by the other disciplines represented in these lists. There is also a new notion that the best diagnostic systems are based on multi-disciplined diagnostic teams which have representitives from all of the relevent medicla professions to participate in the diagnosis of dyslexia and all of the potential underlying causes. This is being promted as part of the One Stop Assessment Centre program,which is currently being piloted. And by assessment they mean diagnostic assessment only, and that after this multi-disciplined Assessmsnt has been made that advice can be made seperately regarding suggesting the use of any remedial programs. This means tha ther diagnostic process is taken out of the hands of educationalist and program providers who have their own vested interest agendas, which may not co incide with the dyslexics real needs. The only Real option is to partner with the Reading Disability or Disorder groups. Because that are the only real partners that dyslexia can have. best wishes dolfrog 21:14, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
So the Reading Disability option would be the best international option. bewst wishes dolfrog 21:43, 14 July 2007 (UTC) [edit] Move stuff about vision issuesThe top of the article clearly states, "This article is about developmental dyslexia" -- but it is getting filled up with a lot of stuff about vision issues and specialized lenses. I think ALL of that stuff should be moved to an appropriate topics related to vision conditions -- my only problem is that I don't know which one. But the "dyslexia" we are talking about in this article is the neurological-processing issue, NOT the vision sensitivity issue that the various colored lens folks seem to advocate. Also, reference to specific lenses by their trademark names looks like spam/advertising to me. I'm not sure if specific reference to product names, as opposed to a generic description - is appropriate for Wikipedia.Armarshall 09:47, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
The visaul apsects are a key part of dyslexia and can not be dismiised . you might as well say get rid of the all the phonological stuff. dyslexia is about having problems with the visual notation of speech, so visual issues are a crucial part of the problem. And the coloured lenses and acetates are very importnat to those who have the visual underlying causes of dyslexia. May be the lenses should be included in the Therapies section.
dolfrog 20:53, 14 July 2007 (UTC) [edit] Trying to define dyslexiaFolowing some of the listed references and their sources and nosing around even further, I came accross this Dyslexia, learning, and pedagogical neuroscience.Fawcett AJ, Nicolson RI. Centre for Child Research, University of Wales, Swansea, UK. a.j.fawcett@swansea.ac.uk The explosion in neuroscientific knowledge has profound implications for education, and we advocate the establishment of the new discipline of 'pedagogical neuroscience' designed to combine psychological, medical, and educational perspectives. We propose that specific learning disabilities provide the crucible in which the discipline may be forged, illustrating the scope by consideration of developmental dyslexia. Current approaches have failed to establish consensus on fundamental issues such as theoretical causes, diagnostic methods, and treatment strategies. We argue that these difficulties arise from diagnosis via behavioural or cognitive symptoms, even though they may arise from diverse causes. Rather than an inconvenience, variability of secondary symptoms within and across learning disabilities can inform both diagnosis and treatment. We illustrate how brain-based theories lead to radical restructuring of diagnostic methods and propose that there is an urgent need to develop genetic and brain-based diagnostic methods designed to lead to individually-appropriate remediation and treatment methods. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=PubMed&Cmd=ShowDetailView&TermToSearch=17376143&ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum So if the Dyslexia researchers have problems defining dyslexia what chance do we have. This also indicates that we should have a time limit say the year 2000 and all research that predates 2000 should be included in the History section or new History of Dyslexia Article, as all recent articles will cite and reference all relevent research from before the cut off time 2000. The political definitions: we only need the World Health Orgnisation definition, and may be more from the organisation that the Canadian Governement use, the rest should be consign to the history Article as that is how out of date they are. dolfrog Of the various Theories of Developemtn dyslexia listed in the 2003 research paper the "The magnocellular theory of developmental dyslexia" is the one that ries to unify them. I have found a abstract that details this theory very well. The magnocellular theory of developmental dyslexia.Stein J. University Laboratory of Physiology, Oxford, UK. Low literacy is termed 'developmental dyslexia' when reading is significantly behind that expected from the intelligence quotient (IQ) in the presence of other symptoms--incoordination, left-right confusions, poor sequencing--that characterize it as a neurological syndrome. 5-10% of children, particularly boys, are found to be dyslexic. Reading requires the acquisition of good orthographic skills for recognising the visual form of words which allows one to access their meaning directly. It also requires the development of good phonological skills for sounding out unfamiliar words using knowledge of letter sound conversion rules. In the dyslexic brain, temporoparietal language areas on the two sides are symmetrical without the normal left-sided advantage. Also brain 'warts' (ectopias) are found, particularly clustered round the left temporoparietal language areas. The visual magnocellular system is responsible for timing visual events when reading. It therefore signals any visual motion that occurs if unintended movements lead to images moving off the fovea ('retinal slip'). These signals are then used to bring the eyes back on target. Thus, sensitivity to visual motion seems to help determine how well orthographic skill can develop in both good and bad readers. In dyslexics, the development of the visual magnocellular system is impaired: development of the magnocellular layers of the dyslexic lateral geniculate nucleus (LGN) is abnormal; their motion sensitivity is reduced; many dyslexics show unsteady binocular fixation; hence poor visual localization, particularly on the left side (left neglect). Dyslexics' binocular instability and visual perceptual instability, therefore, can cause the letters they are trying to read to appear to move around and cross over each other. Hence, blanking one eye (monocular occlusion) can improve reading. Thus, good magnocellular function is essential for high motion sensitivity and stable binocular fixation, hence proper development of orthographic skills. Many dyslexics also have auditory/phonological problems. Distinguishing letter sounds depends on picking up the changes in sound frequency and amplitude that characterize them. Thus, high frequency (FM) and amplitude modulation (AM) sensitivity helps the development of good phonological skill, and low sensitivity impedes the acquisition of these skills. Thus dyslexics' sensitivity to FM and AM is significantly lower than that of good readers and this explains their problems with phonology. The cerebellum is the head ganglion of magnocellular systems; it contributes to binocular fixation and to inner speech for sounding out words, and it is clearly defective in dyslexics. Thus, there is evidence that most reading problems have a fundamental sensorimotor cause. But why do magnocellular systems fail to develop properly? There is a clear genetic basis for impaired development of magnocells throughout the brain. The best understood linkage is to the region of the Major Histocompatibility Complex (MHC) Class 1 on the short arm of chromosome 6 which helps to control the production of antibodies. The development of magnocells may be impaired by autoantibodies affecting the developing brain. Magnocells also need high amounts of polyunsaturated fatty acids to preserve the membrane flexibility that permits the rapid conformational changes of channel proteins which underlie their transient sensitivity. But the genes that underlie magnocellular weakness would not be so common unless there were compensating advantages to dyslexia. In developmental dyslexics there may be heightened development of parvocellular systems that underlie their holistic, artistic, 'seeing the whole picture' and entrepreneurial talents. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=ShowDetailView&TermToSearch=11305228&ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus Prof. John Stein has been the leading Dyslexia Researcher at Oxford University for many years even decades. The changes of the names of the sub types of dyslexis seesm to have haapened in the 1990s visual-spatial/dyseidetic subtypes language disorder/dysphonetic subtypes and the mixed sub group have a look at "Dichotic listening performance in subtypes of developmental dyslexia and a left temporal lobe brain tumor contrast group." [edit] Controversial therapies, major problemThere are still controversial therapies mentioned in this article, and they should be removed for good despite an obstinate undoing policy from proponents. There is a new article called Controversial therapies for learning disabilities which has room for such treatments. There are currently at least a hundred controversial therapies worldwide, and as none of them has sufficient evidence in research, it is unnecessary to rate them or make a "top ten" for the purposes of an article that is based on the scientific view of dyslexia. Wikipedia has become a major media for giving people information on any topic, including learning disabilities, as it is highly ranked by search pages such as Google. It means we have a huge responsibility in giving people the information they need and not allowing Wikipedia to become a marketing media for pseudoscientific products. Honestly, we don't know if these products "work" or "don't work", but we know they lack the evidence because the evidence isn't there; see Scholar Google and compare the quality and number of results with treatments that have proven effect. Who knows, maybe one day we'll have to admit that some of these people were right. That day isn't today. Let's focus on the essential and help improve the article by moving questionable therapies to their own article... please. --Piechjo 13:37, 13 July 2007 (UTC) Hi Piechjo There is no one therapy for dyslkexia, and this is due the multitude of different underlying cause of the dyslexic symptoms, or possible combinatiuons of the these underlying causes. Basically all of the program work for at least one dyslexic so it can be claimed that each program does provide som,e benefit for some dyslexics. The real problem is that the marketing people and their suporters try to make out their their preferred program is THE program that benefits all dyslexics. A whole dyslexia industry has developed that depends on these competing programs, books, and remedial program providers are advertised or marketed as the MAGIC cure. Usually at the expense of those who have to live with these problems on a daily basis. So we need to expose the marketing people see what they are trying to sell, and try to define if their product works and more importantly which groups it may help and which groups the product could be harmful. These marketing people are not interested in the real issues of say dyslexics only their own source of income. The next problem is that there are others who bleive the sales pitch and then enthusiastically try to sell the same pitch to others. The real answers will eventuall bre found via rigorous peer reviewed University based resaerch. Especially internationally peer reviewed which has become a feature of reacent years. This will develop an internation perpsective of the issues and not just our own cultural views. So those who edit this articlew should begin to develop links with international dyslexia researchers so that we can provide a crossection of current research and understanding this provides regarding dyslexia with in the limitation of our present day technologies. The research will evolve and the dyslexia article will need to reflect this evolution, but it is not posible to define dyslexia and realted issues as if it is written in tablets of stone for all time. We have not got that far in our understanding of these issues yet best wishes Hi Piechjo What you need to do is find a general new name for your programs article and take all of the prograns to it including Orton Gillingham and LindaMood Bell, and begin to classify the prograsms according to the country of origin, so that we can all add more programs from our own countries, which may have little interest to many viewers of these articles as the programs may not be avaialbe in their own homelands. So you could call it "International Therapies" with sub sections for each country that can contribute a Therapy to this article. No therapy is proven to help all dyslexics, but we do need more control over the claims of these products similar to the pharmacutical industry. Where the product manufacturers have to stipulate the specific group of dyslexics that their program may help or even cause harm. And that they should provide independent scientific testing to support their claims. best wishes
So i will be unoinf the present page to revent back to is previous state before this unwanted change. Another problem is the wiki page you have created requires a great deal of soting out and is currently disputed. But as i have said these are locla issues to the USa and this is an international wiki article. best wishes dolfrog 22:17, 14 July 2007 (UTC) [edit] Talk page cleanupI am going to try to archive some of the discussions on this page, and clean up other sections. Please do not insert your comments in between others' comments, and please avoid using lines. These both add up to confusion. Oh, and sign your comments with ~~~~ so the date appears too. — Chris53516 (Talk) 17:28, 13 July 2007 (UTC) I am temporarily giving up on this idea. The page is too big and disorganized, with FAR too many quotes. (Your argument isn't any better with quotes.) Please, people, let's try a more sane way of discussion here! This is a mess! — Chris53516 (Talk) 17:47, 13 July 2007 (UTC) Hi Chris I think this mess only goes to highlight the lack of clarity that exists regardinthe concept of dyslexia across both internal and International Boundaries. For some this can be a very emotional or streessful topic of discussion, as many may have experienced disability discrimination regarding acceptance of their diagnosed disability, and some of these stresses can be get tothe extreme of Post Traumatic Stress, which leads to stress triggers surronding any repeated denial of the existance of their diagnosed condition. And the discussion to the outsider may be about conflicting ideas regarding dyslexia but for some individuals it is about the recognition of their enforced way of life. best wishes can't get the date thing to work
[edit] Collaboration on the dyslexia article / article setColleagues, I'm hoping we can establish a collegial group of editors to collaborate on this topic area because it is so important, especially to the many children suffering needlessly. To that end, I think it would be helpful if, when questioning another editor, that we at least begin by politely asking whether someone is exhibiting personal bias. It may simply be a misunderstanding, or it may be that the individual in question is sufficiently self-aware and honest to admit it and attempt to work with other editors so that we end up with a more balanced overall article or article set. We all have biases based on our personal experiences. If you have not already done so, have you considered listing yourself as an editor interested in collaborating on a "child" Wikiproject I proposed for the topic of dyslexia and related conditions? We currently do not have enough editors expressing an interest to qualify for creating a project, and doing so could be a great help in coordinating the work that needs to be done. The Wikiproject gurus directed me to use a lower-overhead method of coordinating work among a small group of editors, which is the Task List shown at the top of this Talk page. I would very much appreciate it if we could agree to at least try using the Task List as a method of coordinating among ourselves. If you are interested in the proposed dyslexia Wikiproject, go to Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Proposals and search for "dyslexia." Best, Rosmoran 20:35, 13 July 2007 (UTC) Hi Sami you now have 5 best wishes dolfrog 22:39, 13 July 2007 (UTC) Hi SAmi I have just received a messageFrom Arm saying that you have a new framework for this article, and i sign up for yopur task force some but so far all i can see is you and arm talking about some secret project between the two of you, dolfrog 03:49, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Work on Navigation toolHi, Arm created a proposed Navigation box, and it would be a good idea for us to reach consensus on what this box should contain. I cobbled together a couple of alternatives at different levels of information specificity. Please take a look at: Best, Rosmoran 04:43, 16 July 2007 (UTC) [edit] Proposed navigation template
Hi, I'm putting on the table for discussion a strawman navigation template for the dyslexia article series. The idea behind this template is to provide a quick path for easy navigation to and among the dyslexia "child" articles, and to give readers a few links to key related topics. I absolutely expect this template to change in format, content, and possibly in scope, based on editorial discussions here and on the dyslexia template talk page.
In case you're interested in seeing how other projects have used navigation boxes, here are a few good examples:
This is just a few --- there are lots of others. I'm looking forward to your ideas and feedback. Best, Rosmoran 16:42, 18 July 2007 (UTC) [edit] cleanup tagWhat happened to the nice header? This should be able to be revised and all the goals accomplished while still having a readable header/summary. Hopefully someone cleans it up soon. Fredsmith2 18:09, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
Hi all. I'll have a good look through the main body of the article. I think the lead section isn't quite representative. Any suggestions for improvement? Spoctacle 11:59, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for the Welcomes guys. I think ultimately more research is the answer. Whether something is validated or not is only one issue. Its whether something is recommended or not, quackery or not, pseudoscience or not, is another set of issues. So its all down to finding reviews, and finding verifiable viewpoints on the subject. Theres going to be a lot of views probably, but of course the science view on the various interventions is tops. Its probably a good idea to distinguish between the sound/solid methods, and the viewed as bogus ones. That way we don't have to worry too much about consensus. I'll get rooting around in the research. I think there are some things we can do with the lead section though. To make it more specific at least to the concerns of evidence based researchers. Cheers Spoctacle 10:03, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Proposed navigation templateHi, all. I have not heard any objections to implementing the proposed navigation template, so I'm going to implement it. Of course, we can revise the content of it any time. Best, Rosmoran 16:13, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Missed comments on nav templateHi, folks. Just a quick heads up. I have missed some of your comments that appeared on Discussion pages related to the navigation template "strawman" in my personal pages. For some reason, my Watchlist isn't showing me all the changes made to personal pages. If for some reason I have missed (or not implemented) a change you suggested for the Dyslexia navigation template, please don't think I'm ignoring it. Assume that I haven't found it yet, and point me to where you left it! Maybe from here on out it would be best to leave comments on the Template:Dyslexia talk page. Thanks for your patience, Rosmoran 17:41, 23 July 2007 (UTC) [edit] Sign Up For Wikiproject DyslexiaIf you have not already done so, please express official interest in the proposed Dyslexia Wikiproject at We currently have 6 which technically meets the minimum number, but WikiProjects are hesitant to create even child projects with this few interested editors. Best, Rosmoran 20:32, 24 July 2007 (UTC) [edit] Wild ideaHi, After I posted my most recent plea for folks to sign up as interested in the Dyslexia project, it occurred to me that we might have a larger body of editors interested in the project if we expand our scope a little bit. What would you guys think about expanding the scope of the child project to learning disabilities and related topics? Might this be a sensible thing to do? Or am I completely off my rocker? Best, Rosmoran 20:36, 24 July 2007 (UTC) Hi Sami "Learning Disabilities" is even more of a disputed topic, with further international differences. And then there are the different professioans in the came country diagnosing the same symptoms in potentially 4 very different ways, this happens in the UK, and is because of the lck of multi- discipline comunication etc, some of the learning Disabilities are also not scientifically defined and there are huge areas of overlap. I think Reading was the best option or more specifically reading text, words as opposed to reading body language and other forms of reading. Another problem of linking in with specific scientific grouping is that when we begin to have a better understanding of trhe workings of the brain, and the underlying causes of dyslexia then we may need to link to different types of professions. And as the underlying causes of dyslexia become more identifiable there wil be a need to link in with the professions which research and have an understanding of these underlying causes whowe will need to link up with. These professions will not specifically be neurologists but a much wider range of multi-disciplined professionals.
dolfrog 01:40, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Check out my first cut at a Dyslexia Project PageHi, fellow-editors, Well, I have a first cut at a Project page for us --- WikiProject Dyslexia. Take a look, add information, revise information, change the format. This is my first attempt at setting up a WikiProject, so be kind, but make the changes you think are needed. Best, Rosmoran 00:46, 4 August 2007 (UTC) [edit] Facts and statistics sectionThere should be a Facts and Statistics section in this article. However, most of the current content belongs in other sections of the article, and some of it is redundant with information that is already included in other sections. For example, theories of causes of dyslexia belong up in their respective sections (unless we completely reorganize the current content of the overall article. Unless I hear strong objections soon, I will incorporate most of this content into the appropriate existing sections. Best, Rosmoran 20:24, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Time to get to work on breaking up article into seriesHi, everyone. Now that WikiProject:Dyslexia is set up and ready to go, I'm thinking it's time for us to move forward with our plan of turning the existing dyslexia article into a series of articles. Here is a link to a draft plan that we can use as a basis for discussion: Let's get this thing going! Best, Rosmoran 05:28, 8 August 2007 (UTC) [edit] People With DyslexiaWhy can I see this causing trouble... as yet all unsourced & possible contravention of WP:BLP also has potential to get huge, I'd suggest a comment & link to the category. --Nate1481( t/c) 09:15, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
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